Discussion:
New book on WWII deserters
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r***@lava.net
2014-12-01 03:15:07 UTC
Permalink
A new book was released in June to favorable reviews on
a subject seldom covered by WWII historians, or mentioned
in groups such as this one. Titled "The Deserters--A Hidden
History of World War II" it was written by Charles Glass a
former war correspondent with ABC news. According to a
recent review in The Wall Street Journal, the book makes the
following interesting observations and, perhaps, some
controversial conclusions, as resulr of the author's
extensive research:

1. There were 50,000 U.S. and 100,000 British soldiers who
deserted during WWII.

2. Deserters were not always "the cowards of popular
assumption but often "rational men making a natural choice
to stay alive," some of whom had previously been decorated
for acts of bravery in action but after prolonged periods of
continuing combat had reached a breaking point.

3. Punishment for desertion varied widely depending on
the armed forces of individual countries. Of the 50,000
known American deserters who were apprehended, only
one, was executed, Private "Eddie" Slovik. Forty-nine others
were sentenced to death but the sentences were never
carried out. In the Soviet Union, 13,500 were executed
for "cowardice and desertion" by the NKVD.

4. Although the U.S. executed only one soldier for desertion,
70 other soldiers were executed for a variety of other crimes,
55 of whom were black.

5. Desertions in the Pacific theater were almost non-existent.
inasmuch as there was nowhere for a deserter to go.

6, What was commonly referred to as "cowardice" during WWII
could in today's U.S. armed forces be considered "post-traumatic
stress syndrome."
Don Phillipson
2014-12-01 19:19:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@lava.net
A new book was released in June to favorable reviews on
a subject seldom covered by WWII historians, or mentioned
in groups such as this one. Titled "The Deserters--A Hidden
History of World War II" it was written by Charles Glass . . .
1. There were 50,000 U.S. and 100,000 British soldiers who
deserted during WWII.
Because of food rationing and other wartime controls (many of
which lasted to 1950 or later) British deserters were a major
social problem in the UK, under real pressure to live by
crime rather than honestly. The magazine Picture Post
reported on deserters from time to time (cf. an article of
1947 IIRR in the 1970 anthology Picture Post by editor
Top Hopkinson.)
Post by r***@lava.net
4. Although the U.S. executed only one soldier for desertion,
70 other soldiers were executed for a variety of other crimes,
55 of whom were black.
Most executions followed conviction for rape or murder.
Post by r***@lava.net
5. Desertions in the Pacific theater were almost non-existent.
inasmuch as there was nowhere for a deserter to go.
An essential difference remains between deserters who
absconded in their own homeland and those who left their
units overseas. Most British deserters had never seen
action (except so far as the whole of the UK was subject
to German bombing and V-weapon attacks.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
The Horny Goat
2014-12-01 21:07:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@lava.net
4. Although the U.S. executed only one soldier for desertion,
70 other soldiers were executed for a variety of other crimes,
55 of whom were black.
5. Desertions in the Pacific theater were almost non-existent.
inasmuch as there was nowhere for a deserter to go.
6, What was commonly referred to as "cowardice" during WWII
could in today's U.S. armed forces be considered "post-traumatic
stress syndrome."
Glass (I've read the book) does make it plain that US / UK military
executions were done almost entirely for rape and murder - not for
offences relating to desertion. These tend not to be related to PTSD
cases.

For the rapes and murders this is actually fairly low given we're
talking about something like 10m men in uniform for 4-6 years.
Particularly when you consider that Uncle Sam and HMG both armed that
many men and taught them how to use lethal force - few soldiers were
killers when they put on uniform and had to be taught to kill. Nearly
all stopped doing so immediately upon the surrender.
Bill
2014-12-02 19:50:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@lava.net
A new book was released in June to favorable reviews on
a subject seldom covered by WWII historians, or mentioned
in groups such as this one. Titled "The Deserters--A Hidden
History of World War II" it was written by Charles Glass a
former war correspondent with ABC news. According to a
recent review in The Wall Street Journal, the book makes the
following interesting observations and, perhaps, some
controversial conclusions, as resulr of the author's
1. There were 50,000 U.S. and 100,000 British soldiers who
deserted during WWII.
That's an awful lot of British deserters, over 3% of total army
manpower and about 1 in 500 of the total population.

That's enough people to cause some quite serious dislocation of the
wartime social system with its strict rationing, direction of labour
and the conscription of every able bodied person of both sexes.

In the UK of WWII young men with no income, no ration card and no job
are going to attract attention.

Logically something else is going on here that we're not seeing in the
simple figures given.

You can't make those sort of numbers disappear with some muttering
about spivs and the black market...
Roman W
2014-12-07 05:24:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill
You can't make those sort of numbers disappear with some muttering
about spivs and the black market...
This summer I visited the Isle of Skye, and saw a small island near
Flodigarry on which a local deserter lived during WW2. He was
provided with food and other stuff by local people (family?
friends?).

RW
Bill
2014-12-07 19:22:46 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 00:24:14 -0500, Roman W
Post by Roman W
Post by Bill
You can't make those sort of numbers disappear with some muttering
about spivs and the black market...
This summer I visited the Isle of Skye, and saw a small island near
Flodigarry on which a local deserter lived during WW2. He was
provided with food and other stuff by local people (family?
friends?).
Again, not enough deserters.

We're talking about 1 in 500 of the adult male population.
Michael Emrys
2014-12-08 05:43:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roman W
This summer I visited the Isle of Skye, and saw a small island near
Flodigarry on which a local deserter lived during WW2. He was provided
with food and other stuff by local people (family? friends?).
Reminds me of a story I heard nearly 40 years ago. I met a guy who was a
young man during the war and lived in New Mexico. When his draft noticed
arrived he decided for whatever reason that he didn't want to go. So,
being an outdoorsman, he packed his rifle and some food and headed up
into the mountains. And that's where he spent the war. He mostly hunted
for food, supplemented by some canned goods that a family member would
pack up into the hills and leave at a safe drop off, along with an
occasional box of cartridges. When the war ended, his brother came and
got him and he rejoined society. I don't know if he had any subsequent
legal or employment problems, he didn't mention any. He may have been
the luckiest draft dodger of the war.

Michael
WJHopwood
2014-12-03 19:46:49 UTC
Permalink
On Sunday, November 30, 2014 10:15:09 PM
Post by r***@lava.net
A new book was released in June to favorable reviews on
a subject seldom covered by WWII historians,......etc.,etc.,
Just to set the record straight, the book is not new and
neither is the post. The June release referred to above
was not this past June of 2014 but June of 2013 as
those who read the words of this post by "***@lava.net
once before will recognize as a word-for-word copy of my
own post of August 2, 2013 which carried the title:
"Deserters in WWII."

WJH
The Horny Goat
2014-12-08 16:55:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by WJHopwood
Post by r***@lava.net
A new book was released in June to favorable reviews on
a subject seldom covered by WWII historians,......etc.,etc.,
Just to set the record straight, the book is not new and
neither is the post. The June release referred to above
was not this past June of 2014 but June of 2013 as
once before will recognize as a word-for-word copy of my
"Deserters in WWII."
Was wondering about that since the book I read (not sure if it's this
one or not - would have to check my library records) was within the
last 6 months but...

As for recognizing a year old post, I sometimes have trouble
recognizing my own words of a month ago never mind a year ago!
David Wilma
2014-12-08 15:36:15 UTC
Permalink
IIRC the U.S. issued a general pardon in about 1947
for offenses like desertion. Did the UK do anything like
that? It doesn't sound like it.
Bill
2014-12-08 16:17:03 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 08 Dec 2014 10:36:15 -0500, David Wilma
Post by David Wilma
IIRC the U.S. issued a general pardon in about 1947
for offenses like desertion. Did the UK do anything like
that? It doesn't sound like it.
I can remember WWII deserters very occasionally being arrested in my
childhood in the 'sixties.

I don't think anyone was looking for them, but if they cropped up in
some sort of criminal case it was another charge to add into the
mix...
WJHopwood
2014-12-08 18:35:10 UTC
Permalink
On Monday, December 8, 2014 10:36:18 AM David Wilma
Post by David Wilma
IIRC the U.S. issued a general pardon in about 1947
for offenses like desertion.......
Quoting from an interesting web site which carries an
article from a 1973 issue of American Heritage magazine
At "...war's end President Truman refused to grant a
general amnesty for military deserters or draft evaders..."

Apparently there was no general pardon issued for WWII
deserters , and no individual pardons for deserters either but
the article does say that Truman did grant individual pardons
to "....1,523 draft evaders who had served or were serving
prison terms....it came twenty-three months after the end of
the war, December 24, 1947. A year earlier Truman had
established a three-man review panel to examine some
fifteen thousand cases of draft evasion."

The article in its entirety covers the entire history of pardons
and amnesties from all wars, insurrections, etc. in which the
U.S. was engaged throughout U.S. history and can be viewed
at http://www.jcs-group.com/military/tribunals/amnesty.html

WJH

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