Discussion:
How does a General win the MoH
(too old to reply)
news
2013-08-15 04:22:03 UTC
Permalink
General Vandergrift received one for his leadership on
Guadalcanal...isn't that what a General is supposed to do?
Phil McGregor
2013-08-15 14:30:51 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 00:22:03 -0400, "news"
Post by news
General Vandergrift received one for his leadership on
Guadalcanal...isn't that what a General is supposed to do?
The citation says it all ...

=====

"For outstanding and heroic accomplishment above and beyond the call
of duty as commanding officer of the 1st Marine Division in operations
against enemy Japanese forces in the Solomon Islands during the period
August 7, to December 9, 1942. With the adverse factors of weather,
terrain, and disease making his task a difficult and hazardous
undertaking, and with his command eventually including sea, land, and
air forces of Army, Navy and Marine Corps, Major General Vandegrift
achieved marked success in commanding the initial landings of the
United States forces in the Solomon Islands and in their subsequent
occupation. His tenacity, courage, and resourcefulness prevailed
against a strong, determined, and experienced enemy, and the gallant
fighting spirit of the men under his inspiring leadership enabled them
to withstand aerial, land, and sea bombardment, to surmount all
obstacles, and leave a disorganized and ravaged enemy. This dangerous
but vital mission, accomplished at the constant risk of his life,
resulted in securing a valuable base for further operations of our
forces against the enemy, and its successful completion reflects great
credit upon Major General Vandegrift, his command, and the United
States Naval Service."

/S/ FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT

=====

"dangerous but vital" ... "at the constant risk of his life" ... the
former might be expected, the latter, somewhat less so, for Generals,
at least.

Phil
news
2013-08-15 19:09:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil McGregor
On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 00:22:03 -0400, "news"
Post by news
General Vandergrift received one for his leadership on
Guadalcanal...isn't that what a General is supposed to do?
The citation says it all ...
=====
"For outstanding and heroic accomplishment above and beyond the call
of duty as commanding officer of the 1st Marine Division in operations
against enemy Japanese forces in the Solomon Islands during the period
August 7, to December 9, 1942. With the adverse factors of weather,
terrain, and disease making his task a difficult and hazardous
undertaking, and with his command eventually including sea, land, and
air forces of Army, Navy and Marine Corps, Major General Vandegrift
achieved marked success in commanding the initial landings of the
United States forces in the Solomon Islands and in their subsequent
occupation. His tenacity, courage, and resourcefulness prevailed
against a strong, determined, and experienced enemy, and the gallant
fighting spirit of the men under his inspiring leadership enabled them
to withstand aerial, land, and sea bombardment, to surmount all
obstacles, and leave a disorganized and ravaged enemy. This dangerous
but vital mission, accomplished at the constant risk of his life,
resulted in securing a valuable base for further operations of our
forces against the enemy, and its successful completion reflects great
credit upon Major General Vandegrift, his command, and the United
States Naval Service."
/S/ FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT
=====
"dangerous but vital" ... "at the constant risk of his life" ... the
former might be expected, the latter, somewhat less so, for Generals,
at least.
Phil
sounds like lots of Generals...but even more like more marines should
have been awarded
Rich Rostrom
2013-08-16 16:17:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by news
sounds like lots of Generals...but even more like more marines should
have been awarded
Major Ken Bailey

Sergeant John Basilone

Lt. Col. Harold Bauer

Corporal Anthony Casamento

Colonel Merritt Edson

Captain Joe Foss


However, the U.S. has a lack. Unlike Britain,
we have top awards only for personal valor.
Britain could honor outstanding command with
knighthoods or even peerages. The U.S. has
nothing comparable, so the CMoH gets stretched
to cover some of those cases.

The VC has been used the same way, occasionally.

Guy Gibson received the VC for leading the
Dam Busters raid - though he was not braver or
at greater risk than the other 179 men who went.
--
The real Velvet Revolution - and the would-be hijacker.

http://originalvelvetrevolution.com
news
2013-08-16 21:13:16 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by Rich Rostrom
Post by news
sounds like lots of Generals...but even more like more marines should
have been awarded
Major Ken Bailey
Sergeant John Basilone
Lt. Col. Harold Bauer
Corporal Anthony Casamento
Colonel Merritt Edson
Captain Joe Foss
However, the U.S. has a lack. Unlike Britain,
we have top awards only for personal valor.
Britain could honor outstanding command with
knighthoods or even peerages. The U.S. has
nothing comparable, so the CMoH gets stretched
to cover some of those cases.
The VC has been used the same way, occasionally.
Guy Gibson received the VC for leading the
Dam Busters raid - though he was not braver or
at greater risk than the other 179 men who went.
I knew about Basilone, but it seems almost a sacrilege to stretch the
CMoH to cover this situation...makes you think that maybe those who
received a fifth star got the more appropriate "reward"
Bill Shatzer
2013-08-17 04:14:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Rostrom
However, the U.S. has a lack. Unlike Britain,
we have top awards only for personal valor.
Britain could honor outstanding command with
knighthoods or even peerages. The U.S. has
nothing comparable, so the CMoH gets stretched
to cover some of those cases.
The Distinguished Service Medal, the Legion of Merit, and the Bronze
Star Medal (sans "V" device) were all awarded for exceptionally
meritorious service during WW2.

The DSM and the LofM were typically awarded to colonels and above
although I think they were occassionally awarded to lower grade officers
or even enlisted personnel.
Post by Rich Rostrom
The VC has been used the same way, occasionally.
Guy Gibson received the VC for leading the
Dam Busters raid - though he was not braver or
at greater risk than the other 179 men who went.
And Doolittle received the MoH for leading the 1942 Tokyo raid despite
not being at greater risk than the rest of his crew or the crews of the
other 15 bombers.

Still, there is a difference between leading and following.
w***@hotmail.com
2013-08-18 20:21:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by news
General Vandergrift received one for his leadership on
Guadalcanal...isn't that what a General is supposed to do?
Sounds like lots of Generals...but even more like more
marines should have been awarded ...
Yes, like Holland M. "Howlin' Mad" Smith, who commanded
Task Force 56 and the Fifth Amphibious Corps at Iwo
Jima. And, I would never forgive Chester Nimitz for
preventing Smith, the highest ranking Marine General in
the Pacific Theater, in joining the group of generals
and admirals on board the Missouri parked in Tokyo Bay
in September 1945. I know many generals and admirals,
such as Rear Admiral Harry Hill, had petitioned Nimitz
to allow Smith to join the surrender ceremonies, but
Nimitz had taken heavy flak from the U.S. Army over
"Howlin' Mad" Smith's sacking of Army General Ralph
Smith at Saipan in the Marianas because Ralph Smith
was not moving his 27th Division fast enough.

And I would bet my last dollar that "Dugout Doug" had
nixed the idea too, of Smith being on board the Mo.
I have a feeling that MacArthur was jealous of the
Marines and, and one time, had accused Alexander
Vandegrift of being a "show-boater" at Guadalcanal
and had stated to a subordinate, "he just wants to
be able to go back to the states after the war and
run for president", or words to that effect
(ironically, I seem to recall that there was a big
effort to put Mac up for presidential election after
the war). And, one wonders, if Mac really appreciated
what the 1st Marine Division had gone through at the
'Canal, Tulagi, and Cape Gloucester in the Solomons.

And another guy that probably should have gotten the
MoH would be Roy Geiger, who commanded the Third
Amphibious Marine Corps at Okinawa, the only Marine
to command an entire Army (10th U.S. Army), when Lt.
General Simon Bolivar Buckner was killed in June of
1945 when a Japanese mortar round took out his CP.

There are countless other Marines that were overlooked
or passed over, for various reasons. All of the
branches of the U.S. military probably had hundreds
of GI's that were deserving of MoH's that got passed
over.

Another group overlooked for their heroism and duty,
although not in line for the MoH, but the thousands
of Merchant Mariners that plowed the convoy routes
to deliver the war goods. Unsung heroes, never
really recognized for their actions until late after
the war ended, after losses of almost 9,500 Mariners.

Tim Watkins

"There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots,
but there are no old, bold pilots".

Loading...