Discussion:
B-17 and B-24 in the 15th Air Force
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Geoffrey Sinclair
2014-09-25 14:41:59 UTC
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Tonnage is in short tons, 2,000 pounds.

The 15th Air Force was officially formed on 1 November 1943,
with 4 B-17, 2 B-24, 1 B-25 and 3 B-26 groups. The B-25
group was reassigned to the 12th Air Force on 3 November, the
B-26 groups on 1 January 1944. For fighter cover there were
3 P-38 and 1 P-47 groups.

Final strength was 6 B-17 and 15 B-24 groups, along with 3
P-38 and 4 P-51 groups, with the 332nd fighter group having
4 squadrons of P-51s instead of the normal 3.

No new units became operational in 1943, two new B-24
groups flew their first mission on 8 January 1944, another on
the 30th, February saw three more B-24 groups flying their
first missions on the 8th, 10th and 12th, March had 1 new
B-17 group (on the 30th) and 2 B-24 groups, on the 2nd and
19th, four new groups in April, a B-17 on the 12th and 3 B-24
on the 2nd, 29th and 30th, finally in May 2 new B-24 groups
flew their first missions on the 5th and 10th.

A P-51 group was transferred from the 12th Air Force and
flew what is reported to be the first P-51 operation in the
Mediterranean as its first 15th Air Force mission on 16
April. Another P-51 group was transferred from the 12th
and flew its first 15th Air Force mission on the 10th of May.
The original P-47 group, the 325th, converted to P-51 in
May 1944, last P-47 operations on the 24th, first P-51 on
the 27th. Finally the 332nd fighter group was transferred
to the 15th Air Force while it was converting from the P-39
to the P-47, it flew P-47 operations from 7 to 30 June while
converting to P-51s, with the first P-51 operation on 4 July.

It is clear that in mid May 1944 the 15th Air Force had a real
fighter shortage, 21 bomb to 6 fighter groups, finally ending
up with 7 fighter groups.

At the other end of the campaign, 2 B-24 groups were
returned to the US in mid April 1945, while by the end of
May 1945 another 4 B-24 groups had been returned to
the US and another 4 assigned to Air Transport Command
in Natal, Trinidad and Casablanca. Planning as of the
end of May 1945 was that only 3 of the original B-17 groups,
the 2nd, 97th and 99th, would remain in Europe, the rest of
the bomb groups would be returned to the US by end July,
followed by the fighter groups.

This follows the pattern in the 8th Air Force, the rapid
retirement of the B-24 while retaining the B-17.

Overall the B-17 accounts for 31.5% of all airborne 15th Air
Force heavy bomber sorties, but 32.5% of effective sorties,
that is they completed the mission. As with the 8th Air Force
a number of airborne sorties were spares to replace any
aborting aircraft, unused spares were classified along with
any early aborts as Early Return, or Non Sorties, the B-17
accounts for 32.4% of such sorties. The B-17 accounts for
28.5% of aborts due to weather, 26.1% due to mechanical
problems, 22.7% for aircraft and accessory problems, 19%
for lead ship failure (radar bombing) but 38.7% of
miscellaneous reason aborts, overall 19.9% of B-17 and
23.3% of B-24 sorties were non effective.

Clearly the number of early returns is influenced by the number
of spare sorties and the number of lead ship failures by the
amount of radar bombing, but overall it is seen the B-17 was
the more reliable. In addition overall around 77% of B-17 were
operational at any one time versus 69% of B-24s.

Weather aborts are broken down into two categories, target
obscured and failed to reach target. From January 1944 on
8,664 fighter and bomber sorties found the target obscured,
12,380 failed to reach the target.

The 15th Air Force first used H2X to aim bombs on 15 April
1944, against Bucharest, and unfortunately the different
references disagree about what attacks used H2X. As the
analysis currently stands from 15 April to end October 1944
there were 2,988 effective B-17 and 3,764 effective B-24
sorties using H2X, plus 8 B-17 and 3 B-24 effective sorties
using H2X at night. For the remainder of the war there are
around another 20,000 day and 150 night effective sorties
using H2X.

When it comes to losses the B-17 was 32.2% of heavy bombers
reported lost to enemy aircraft, 23.3% to flak, 25% to mechanical
or other reasons, and 26.6% of unknown cause losses. As a
percentage of effective sorties, B-17 loss rate was 1.5%, the
B-24 2%. The B-17 had 34.2% of heavy bomber encounters
with enemy aircraft, that is 4,531 versus 8,703 for the B-24. So
overall it appears to have been slightly less vulnerable to fighter
attack and definitely less vulnerable to flak and equipment failure,
but as "unknown cause" makes up 14.7% of reported losses the
results have a significant error margin.

For every bomber lost on operations another 5.25 were listed
as damaged, for the B-17 it was 6.9 damaged to destroyed,
for the B-24 5.1 to 1, implying the B-24 took less damage to
shoot down or was being systematically sent to more lightly
protected targets. There seems to be a bias at times to use
higher flying B-17 units on heavily defended targets, but how
much this matters over the course of the campaign is another
matter.

However the large number of sorties to mainly communication
targets in Italy disguises the loss rates, both oil and industry
targets, mainly outside Italy, had an aircraft loss rate of 3.1%.

The personnel loss records have 3.8% of casualties in the
Adriatic, which could mean from missions against a number of
countries, plus 5% of casualties to "other countries", in both
cases bomb tonnage dropped is zero. With that in mind targets
in Austria are reported as having been attacked by 24% of bombs
dropped and resulted in 24.2% of casualties (killed, wounded,
missing, PoW), Germany 11.6% of bombs, 14.1% of casualties,
Romania 8.5% of bombs, 9.8% of casualties, Italy 29.4% of
bombs, 18.2% of casualties and surprisingly Yugoslavia with
7.1% of bombs but 12.9% of casualties.

Accidents on non operational sorties lost 43 B-17 and 192 B-24.

The 15th Air Force uses destroyed and missing categories for
aircraft losses on operational missions, it is clear most destroyed
aircraft would be classified as missing in the system used by
the 8th Air Force, so no comparison is possible when it comes to
aircraft that returned to friendly territory too damaged to be repaired
versus those lost over enemy territory.

Unfortunately while there are figures for the total number of
sorties by B-17 and B-24 for the campaign so far no official
campaign total of bomb tonnage by aircraft type has been found.
Monthly figures for bomb tonnage by type are available from
January 1944 on but not sorties by type. In addition some key
reports use pilot sorties which are all sorties that crossed
enemy lines, whether effective or not, which means they
cannot be used to calculate bombs dropped per effective sortie.

The B-17 dropped 104,877 tons of bombs January 1944 onwards,
the B-24 192,113 tons, B-17 effective sorties from November
1943 onwards are 41,751, B-24 86,838. Even with the missing
bomb tonnage it is clear the B-17 was carrying the heavier loads
on average.

To obtain an idea on average bomb loads the data in the "Target
and Duty Sheets", which give a break down by bomb group, have
been used even though they are only available for the December
1943 to October 1944 period at the moment and the December
1943 figures do not include tonnage classified as jettisoned.

For effective B-17 sorties December 1943 to October 1944 the
average bomb load dropped was 5,400 pounds, for B-24 it was
4,690 pounds. These figures are a slight underestimate, as
some sorties classified as effective have at least some of
their bomb tonnage classified as jettisoned.

On an administrative note the number of effective sorties used in
the above calculation excludes 58 B-17 PoW evacuation sorties
in August and September 1944 and 659 B-24 supply mission
sorties to France in September and October 1944 as well as
a small number of reconnaissance and air sea rescue sorties.

The jettisoned bomb tonnage listed in the Target and Duty
Sheets is significant, for January to October 1944 it is 16,777
tons versus 182,185.6 tons dropped by effective sorties. Most
jettisoned tonnage is that, but some appears to be bombs
that for example hung up but later dropped or were dropped
clear of any recognised target, "unaimed" bombs perhaps.

As a sanity check the results can be compared with the USAAF
Statistical Digest figures, firstly for airborne heavy bomber sorties
in the Mediterranean theatre, month, duty sheets, digest,

Jan-44 \\ 4778 \\ 4,720
Feb-44 \\ 3974 \\ 3,981
Mar-44 \\ 5997 \\ 5,996
Apr-44 \\ 10171 \\ 10,182
May-44 \\ 14425 \\ 14,432
Jun-44 \\ 11737 \\ 11,761
Jul-44 \\ 12656 \\ 12,642
Aug-44 \\ 12197 \\ 12,194
Sep-44 \\ 10081 \\ 10,056
Oct-44 \\ 9645 \\ 9,567

January sorties include 11 Air Sea Rescue, March include 1 weather
reconnaissance, July include 7 photo reconnaissance, August include
4 photographic reconnaissance, 1 special mission, 1 secret mission,
38 PoW evacuation, September include 20 PoW evacuation, 609
supply, October includes 50 supply.

So the digest title is clear, it is counting sorties by heavy bombers,
regardless of the mission type.

Bomb tonnages do not agree as well as the sorties, month, duty
sheets (effective plus jettisoned bombs), digest,

Jan-44 \\ 10,855 \\ 11,051
Feb-44 \\ 6,548 \\ 6,747
Mar-44 \\ 10,264 \\ 10,376
Apr-44 \\ 21,210 \\ 21,256
May-44 \\ 30,236 \\ 30,355
Jun-44 \\ 25,131 \\ 24,466
Jul-44 \\ 29,799 \\ 32,183
Aug-44 \\ 27,976 \\ 27,839
Sep-44 \\ 20,782 \\ 20,856
Oct-44 \\ 16,162. \\ 16,257

So the digest is counting jettisoned tonnage.

The target and duty sheets often record the altitude the bombs
were released at, the maximum was 32,000 feet by a B-17 group,
the highest recorded B-24 altitude was 27,000 feet, it is the only
B-24 entry of 26,000 feet or higher, versus the 120 B-17 entries.
Lowest bombing altitude, assuming no mistaken entries, was
2,300 feet, then one at 3,500 feet, all other entries are 11,000
feet or higher.

The target and duty sheets note fighters escorting early
returning bombers were classified as being Non Effective sorties,
thereby increasing the "headline" unreliability rate for fighters.
15th Air Force P-38 units dropped over 3,000 tons of bombs, the
P-47 units none and the P-51 units 1 ton in April 1945.

Some of the 1945 monthly reports have Engine Change Reports,
graphs of average running time per aircraft engine changed.
Generally speaking the R-1830 radials in the B-24 and the R-1820
radials in the B-17 had at least an average of 300 hours running when
changed, few had 400, with the R-1820 ahead, most having 350 or
more hours. Overhauled engines usually had around half the average
hours of new engines. The V-1650 Merlins and the V-1710 Allisons
usually averaged over 200 hours, few made it to 300 until March/April.
Overhauled Allisons were around half the new engine hours, overhauled
Merlins more like a quarter.

Geoffrey Sinclair
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Rich Rostrom
2014-09-29 04:30:22 UTC
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Post by Geoffrey Sinclair
The 15th Air Force was officially formed on 1 November 1943,
Thanks for compiling this very interesting
information.

While the stats seem to show a performance
edge for the B-17 over the B-24, ISTM to be
a very slight edge.

Other points of interest.

The mixture of bomb groups. (Did anyone consider
sending only one of the two planes? One presumes
that the 15th AF (though not the 8th) could have
been all one or the other.

The massive expansion of the 15th in spring 1944.
There must have been a reason for that.

The bombing career of the P-38s.

Incidentally, this raises a question: was the
15th AF the only Allied heavy bomber force in
the MTO? Was Bomber Command active there in
1944-1945?
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John Dallman
2014-09-29 14:42:16 UTC
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In article
Post by Rich Rostrom
Incidentally, this raises a question: was the
15th AF the only Allied heavy bomber force in
the MTO? Was Bomber Command active there in
1944-1945?
Bomber Command occasionally raided Italy, and at least once did shuttle
bombing using North African airfields as their stopover point, but
Germany was by far their main target.

The RAF formed Tactical Air Forces during the war, but they were fighter
plus ground attack organisations. Heavy bombing stayed based in the UK
until Tiger Force was formed for the final stages of the Pacific War, and
that never got into action, owing to the war ending first.

John
Michael Emrys
2014-09-29 14:42:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Rostrom
The massive expansion of the 15th in spring 1944.
There must have been a reason for that.
The massive increase in availability of planes and especially crews
would be one thing.

Michael
Rich Rostrom
2014-09-30 01:12:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Emrys
Post by Rich Rostrom
The massive expansion of the 15th in spring 1944.
There must have been a reason for that.
The massive increase in availability of planes and especially crews
would be one thing.
Obviously, but there must have been more to
it than "we can do it, so let's do it."

The Eighth AF needed every plane they could
get for OVERLORD and the Oil Plan. Was there
an upper limit on what could be based in
Britain?

And in any case, Air Force operations were
very costly in fuel, personnel, supplies.
No one said they _must_ spend so much.

Now to be sure, Alexander and the MTO command
surely had uses for this added airpower, but
what were they?
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Geoffrey Sinclair
2014-09-30 14:42:14 UTC
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Post by Rich Rostrom
Post by Michael Emrys
Post by Rich Rostrom
The massive expansion of the 15th in spring 1944.
There must have been a reason for that.
The massive increase in availability of planes and especially crews
would be one thing.
Obviously, but there must have been more to
it than "we can do it, so let's do it."
Yes, long term planning. It took something like 12 months
for a USAAF bomb group to go from formation to combat
ready. Decisions were taken about the size of forces early
in the war along with weapon production targets, these
were of course adjusted over time but the situation was the
early decisions had a way of being hard to really change.

How many aircraft carriers, how many armoured divisions,
how many heavy bomber units, how many fighter units and
so on. For the US army and USAAF formations especially
it took a large amount of war time to create a trained full
scale army because of how small the base was and when
expansion was started.

The axis began mobilising a few years before the allies.
Post by Rich Rostrom
The Eighth AF needed every plane they could
get for OVERLORD and the Oil Plan.
Except as originally used the heavy bombers were not
thought of as invasion support and the 8th went after
ball bearings and aircraft industry targets.
Post by Rich Rostrom
Was there
an upper limit on what could be based in
Britain?
Yes there clearly was, at the same time a lot of the
airpower present in Britain in June 1944 moved to
the continent in the second half of the year.
Post by Rich Rostrom
And in any case, Air Force operations were
very costly in fuel, personnel, supplies.
No one said they _must_ spend so much.
Yes. The bias towards air power was mainly the combination
of pre war theory and the fact the western allies did not have
an active ground combat front in Europe and did not expect
to have one before some time in 1943.
Post by Rich Rostrom
Now to be sure, Alexander and the MTO command
surely had uses for this added airpower, but
what were they?
In actual fact the USAAF reduced its tactical air power
forces in the Mediterranean, sending some units to France
where they became part of the US/French 1st Tactical
Air Force and other units to India. I suspect the RAF
did something similar, if only to Free French units
from the Mediterranean.

With the pressure on the Luftwaffe over Germany and
Northern Europe in general the Luftwaffe had to largely
abandon the Mediterranean.

Similarly as the Allies cleared France and the Balkans
the number of targets the 15th Air Force needed to
attack decreased.

Fundamentally Alexander needed more amphibious lift
to go around the German positions, that may have in turn
triggered a use for more air and ground forces.

Geoffrey Sinclair
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Rich Rostrom
2014-09-30 17:01:17 UTC
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Post by Geoffrey Sinclair
In actual fact the USAAF reduced its tactical air power
forces in the Mediterranean
Yabbut you documented a _big_ increase
in 15th AF heavy bomber strength.

What for?
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The real Velvet Revolution - and the would-be hijacker.

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Geoffrey Sinclair
2014-10-01 15:55:08 UTC
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Post by Rich Rostrom
Post by Geoffrey Sinclair
In actual fact the USAAF reduced its tactical air power
forces in the Mediterranean
Yabbut you documented a _big_ increase
in 15th AF heavy bomber strength.
Yes, well before the withdrawal of the tactical air power
and for that matter the army divisions sent to France.
Post by Rich Rostrom
What for?
Targets out of or at extreme range of the bombers based
in England, places like Northern Italy, Austria, Southern
Germany, Romania (Ploesti comes to mind) and so on.

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.

Geoffrey Sinclair
2014-09-29 14:43:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Rostrom
Post by Geoffrey Sinclair
The 15th Air Force was officially formed on 1 November 1943,
While the stats seem to show a performance
edge for the B-17 over the B-24, ISTM to be
a very slight edge.
The noticeable thing is the figures for the 8th Air Force indicate
the opposite to the 15th Air Force figures. The B-24 in the 8th
seems to have had a lower loss rate and higher average bomb
load than the B-17, the 15th says it was the other way around.

Overall it does point to little performance differences over
the sorts of missions actually done in Europe.
Post by Rich Rostrom
Other points of interest.
The mixture of bomb groups. (Did anyone consider
sending only one of the two planes? One presumes
that the 15th AF (though not the 8th) could have
been all one or the other.
The 15th Air Force inherited a B-17 heavy force because
there were more B-17 groups available in late 1942, in
that it mirrors the early 8th Air Force. In theory the four
original B-17 groups could have converted or moved to
England, swapping for the B-24 groups there but the
practical reality was such a move had real costs.

There is little doubt the 15th liked the extra altitude
performance of the B-17 as can be seen by bombing
altitudes and given the average bomb loads and losses
I am sure it would have the case to be an all B-17 force
if it was asked.
Post by Rich Rostrom
The massive expansion of the 15th in spring 1944.
There must have been a reason for that.
Primary reason was the US production system was finally
fully working, turning out the equipment and the trained
combat units, and in early 1944 for heavy bombers that
meant more B-24 than B-17.

In early September 1943 the 8th had 16 operational B-17
groups and no operational B-24 groups, mainly as the B-24
units had been sent to the Mediterranean for various missions.
The 4 assigned B-24 groups became operational by mid
September but then 3 of them were returned to the
Mediterranean and it was not until early October all 4 groups
were again operational in England. By the end of 1943 the
8th had 18 operational B-17 and 7 operational B-24 groups,
on D-Day, when the last assigned heavy bomber group flew
its first mission, it was 21 B-17 to 19 B-24.

The 9th Air Force underwent an even more spectacular
growth in the same time period.

In addition with the capture of the Foggia area the allies
had enough airfields to base a force and had enough
targets in range to justify the force.
Post by Rich Rostrom
The bombing career of the P-38s.
They were clearly preferred as fighter bombers, leaving the
P-51 for escort.
Post by Rich Rostrom
Incidentally, this raises a question: was the
15th AF the only Allied heavy bomber force in
the MTO? Was Bomber Command active there in
1944-1945?
Neither the 8th Air Force nor Bomber Command were
more than visitors to the Mediterranean.

The 15th Air Force came into being by taking formations
from the 12th Air Force which had been created for the
invasion of French North Africa and also in turn had inherited
formations from the 9th Air Force when the 9th was sent to
England So both the 9th and 12th operated heavy bomber
units while in the Mediterranean before the 15th was formed.

You need to look up RAF number 205 group which was the
night bomber force, it and the 15th Air Force formed the
Mediterranean Allied Strategic Air Force. The RAF force
was mainly Wellingtons in early 1944 and later received
Halifaxes. The 15th Air Force reports give monthly totals
for the RAF effort for a time in 1944, the table is month,
RAF sorties as a percentage of 15th Air Force heavy
bomber sorties, RAF bomb tonnage as a percentage
of 15th Air Force heavy bomber bomb tonnage.

Feb \\ 14.69 \\ 17.91
Mar \\ 13.88 \\ 15.03
Apr \\ 11.22 \\ 9.24
May \\ 9.88 \\ 13.51
Jun \\ 12.30 \\ 11.33
Jul \\ 10.55 \\ 7.77
Aug \\ 10.85 \\ 9.28
Sep \\ 15.13 \\ 19.18
Total \\ 11.84 \\ 11.77

Total is for the 8 months.

Geoffrey Sinclair
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Rich Rostrom
2014-09-30 01:08:11 UTC
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Post by Geoffrey Sinclair
The 15th Air Force reports give monthly totals
for the RAF [MTO] effort for a time in 1944...
It seems to be a fairly substantial effort; more
than just a token or hyper-specialized force. And
it grew comparably to the USAF MTO effort, which
grew a lot.
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Geoffrey Sinclair
2014-10-01 15:54:39 UTC
Permalink
Correction/addition time.
Post by Geoffrey Sinclair
You need to look up RAF number 205 group which was the
night bomber force, it and the 15th Air Force formed the
Mediterranean Allied Strategic Air Force. The RAF force
was mainly Wellingtons in early 1944 and later received
Halifaxes.
but by the end of the war was an all B-24 Liberator force,
though 1 squadron was still flying Wellingtons in March 1945.

For comparison purposes a USAAF bomber group
normally controlled 4 squadrons but it looks like the RAF
bomber squadrons in 205 Group normally had a larger
number of aircraft assigned than a heavy bomber squadron
in the 15th Air Force. In early 1944 both Air Forces seem
to have had a similar ratio of aircraft to assigned crews
but late in 1944 and in 1945 with the decline in losses the
USAAF seems to have ended up with a higher number of
crews per aircraft.

Also the USAAF had squadrons formed into groups which
were formed into wings, the RAF had squadrons formed
into wings which were formed into groups.

Number 205 group was formed in Egypt, at Shallufa near
Suez in October 1941 by renaming number 257 wing, it
was meant as a heavy/strategic bomber unit. It seems
clear at least in early/mid 1944 the group controlled units
being trained in North Africa despite being based in Italy.

As of end October 1943 the group controlled 6 operational
Wellington squadrons, numbers 37, 40, 70, 104, 142 and
150. Mostly with mark X but some mark III and even a couple
of mark Ic, the latter presumably for training. All squadrons
were based in Tunisia. The 6 squadrons held 117 aircraft
versus 192 in the four B-17 groups of the 15th Air Force.

205 group began moving to Italy firstly by sending
detachments and it looks like the squadrons officially
moved in the late December 1943 to mid January 1944
period and by the end of the month it had almost all
mark X with a few mark III. It had 3 wings, number 231
controlling 37 and 70 squadrons, 236 wing controlling
40 and 104 squadrons and 330 wing controlling 142 and
150 squadrons, but strength was down to 73 aircraft as
of 3 February, then 88 by the end of the month, versus
181 aircraft in the four B-17 groups.

Number 178 squadron was one of the original RAF
Liberator squadrons, forming in Egypt in January 1943
from Middle East detachments and aircrews of 147, 159
and 160 squadrons, with Liberator II (B-24C), it gained
some Halifax II in May 1943, then received Liberator III
(B-24D) in September 1943 which replaced the Halifaxes.
It was still based in in North Africa, it then gained some mark
VI (B-24J) in January 1944 while giving up its remaining
mark III and then moved to Italy on 1 March 1944.

Number 614 squadron was created by renumbering number
462 squadron, again based in North Africa, on 15 February,
it arrived in Italy on 28 February with Halifax II.

462 squadron had been formed in September 1942 by
merging elements of 10, 76, 227 squadrons and a
detachment meant to become 462 squadron. It was one
of those nominally Australian squadrons in the RAF that
actually often had fewer Australians than the regular RAF
units around it. 462 squadron would be reformed in August
1944 in England as part of Bomber Command.

The complicated formation of 178 and 462 squadrons
were the result of the major problems the allies had in
the first half of 1942, with the RAF ending up having
several squadrons with air elements in one or more
locations and similar for their ground elements.

The two new squadrons formed number 240 wing, and so
205 group had 6 Wellington, 1 Liberator and 1 Halifax
squadrons, with 156 aircraft, the now 6 B-17 groups in
the 15th Air Force (all under 5th Wing) had 313 aircraft.

By the end of May all the Wellington in the squadrons were
mark X, while 178 squadron had 2 Liberator III and the rest
were mark VI.

Number 31 squadron South African Air Force was formed
in South Africa in January 1944, moved to North Africa
in March where it received Liberator VI and came under
command of number 2 South Africa wing and 205 group.
It moved to Italy on 16 June.

Number 34 squadron South African Air Force was formed
in the Middle East in April 1944, received Liberator VI in
May and moved to Italy in July, along with number 2 South
Africa wing. Also in July number 178 squadron became
an all Liberator VI unit. So now 205 group had 6 Wellington
X, 3 Liberator VI and 1 Halifax II squadrons with 185 aircraft,
the USAAF 5th Wing had 277 B-17s.

Number 614 squadron received its first Liberators in
August, having 1 VI and 3 VIII (B-24J) at the end of the
month, then 2 VI and 3 VIII by the end of September.

On 5 October numbers 142 and 150 squadrons were
disbanded, followed by 330 wing on the 26th. So on 19
October 205 group had 8 squadrons, 3 with Liberator
VI, 4 with Wellington X (but 37 squadron had 2 Liberator
VI on strength) and 614 squadron with 15 Halifaxes and
6 Liberators, all up 167 aircraft versus 375 B-17s in the
USAAF 5th Wing.

Within about 3 weeks both 142 and 150 squadrons would
be reformed in England as part of Bomber Command.

By mid November 614 squadron was up to 8 Liberators
versus 15 Halifaxes.

Number 37 squadron converted to Liberator VI in the
second half of December 1944 while by 11 January 1945
number 614 squadron had 12 Liberators to 10 Halifaxes.

Number 70 squadron converted to Liberator VI in the
second half of January 1945 and by 8 February both 40
and 104 squadrons had their first Liberators, while 614
squadron had 7 Halifax II, 2 Liberator VI and 14 VIII.

As of 8 March number 104 squadron was all Liberator VI,
and 614 squadron was 1 Liberator VI and 13 VIII, so 205
group had 7 Liberator and 1 Wellington squadrons
with 133 aircraft versus 375 B-17s in the 6 groups/24
squadrons in the USAAF 5th Wing. So squadron sizes
had become more equal.

As of 29 March number 205 group was all Liberator,
7 squadrons with mark VI and 1 with mark VIII (plus 1
remnant mark VI) with 140 aircraft, the USAAF 5th wing
had 384 B-17s.

A more complicated Order of Battle than the 15th Air
Force.

A note on squadrons reforming in England, the new
142 squadron flew Mosquitoes, the new 150 squadron
was formed from C flight of 550 squadron flying
Lancasters and the new 462 squadron flew Halifax III.
It does not look like many, or in fact any, of the personnel
in the Mediterranean squadrons went to England to be
founding personnel of the Bomber Command units.
Though that needs to be checked via any squadron
histories.

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.
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