Discussion:
American aircraft in the air DURING the Pearl Harbor Attack
(too old to reply)
David Aiken
2005-05-12 23:45:37 UTC
Permalink
Aloha All,
One thread is discussing in passing the upgrade of the DSC to the MOH
for George Welch and Ken Taylor based on being in the air DURING the
Pearl Harbor Attack...and even suggesting that they were the only ones
to shoot down anything.

Perhaps we should understand how MANY were airborne and what they did
prior to going off half-cocked with such proposals?

Ah, yes! We had some fighters in the air...a rare few:
Taylor got one VAL on his first flight and shared one VAL with Welch;
then two more on his second but got credit for only two.

Welch claimed two VALs on his first flight, but the first one landed on
its carrier and one was a share with Taylor, and got two planes (one
was a VAL) on his second mission and got credit for four.

John Dains got in the air next and about ten years ago we learned he
shot down a VAL. He was killed on his second flight by Schofield
Barracks fire (ala the scene in FROM HERE TO ETERNITY) as he was trying
to land at nearby Wheeler Field.

Harry Brown and Bob Rogers attacked a VAL, both put in claims but the
plane went down.

Brown joined up with Mike Moore to attack two planes, years later we
find they were Zeros. Both Zeros never returned to their carriers. For
more on this encounter see:
http://www.flightjournal.com/articles/lost_p-36/sterling1.asp

Four P-36s [Lew Sanders, John Thacker, Gordon Sterling, Phil Rasmussen]
got in the air from Wheeler and were vectored to Kaneohe, where they
bounced SIX Zeros! Two MORE Zeros joined the fray! Gordon Sterling was
lost and is STILL MIA. Read more about these four at:
http://www.flightjournal.com/articles/lost_p-36/sterling1.asp

John Webster attacked a pair of fighters with his P-40, but was wounded
for the effort.

George Whiteman got his wheels off the ground just as Zeros hit the
airfield. He crashed at the end of the runway. Whiteman AFB, MO is in
his memory.

Sam Bishop was able to get in the air immediately after Whiteman, with
the attacking Zeros diverted by Whiteman. However, he did not make it
far as the Zeros caught up with him. Wounded he crashed off shore and
waded ashore.

Fred Shifflet made a circle of Pearl Harbor to seek out enemy aircraft,
flew over Hickam Field and was filled with AA fire. He deadsticked the
P-40 back to Wheeler Field to land on flat tires.

William Haney got hit by Pearl Harbor fire on BOTH of his sorties and
had to return to Wheeler each time with a dead engine.

Woodrow Willmot, Aaron Tyer, Francis Gabreski, and Henry Lawrence
avoided Pearl Harbor fire, but never saw the enemy. Gabreski ended WWII
as the highest European Theater of Operations ace.

A sortie of 25 fighter pilots got airborne at 0930 just after Wheeler
was strafed. Names are sought.

Now that we have THESE fighter pilots noted, how many OTHER American
aircraft were airborne DURING the attack?

Well, I outlined above the fighters. Add to that 18 SBDs from USS
Enterprise that flew into war (six were lost, of which ground fire got
one) and a dozen B-17s came in from California...(two were lost).

Then comes the movie TORA-TORA-TORA ...remember the lady instructor
that joined up with a Japanese formation? ...she was depicting SEVERAL
storys combined into one character. There were actually EIGHT light
single engined civilian planes in the air, ALL but one came under
attack...THREE were shot down [of the three, two are still missing].

Also coming from California to arrive during the attack was the PanAm
Clipper ship ANZAC. Fortunately, they got news of the attack as they
neared the Oahu coast and made it to Hilo, Hawaii. The Ambassador to
the US from Burma [and his secretary] was aboard.

At 0620 three PBYs got in the air to do anti-sub searching. One found a
midget sub and helped USS Ward sink it. These were diverted to search
for the Japanese carriers.

At 0700 four PBYs got in the air to do a "problem" with submarine USS
Gudgeon off the island of Lanai. They were diverted to search for the
Japanese carriers...one flew into a Japanese VAL formation for an
air-to-air battle.

At 0915-0930, while USS Nevada was being hit by VALs, a PBY got into
the waters off Ford Island and got airborne down the main channel
toward the entrance with the intent to search for the Japanese
carriers.

PBY pilot Ted Marshall got so mad at the loss of his PBY that he went
to the old Luke Field side of Ford Island and got into a few aircraft
until he found a TBD that operated. He followed and attacked a Japanese
unit until the fuel guage said "return".

A B-18 was on Molokai. The crew were told to "return to their duty
base" at Wheeler. They arrived over Oahu to be fired on by Ft Ruger
fire, then Hickam fire, and landed at Wheeler just after a Japanese
strafing attack.

Within three hundred miles of Oahu, USS Enterprise put up a four plane
combat air patrol, and an inner air patrol of two bombers...then more
planes.

AFTER the attack MORE aircraft got in the air, some got involved with
Japanese aircraft...and MORE Navy Cross medals were given for their
actions.

ATTENTION: the roster above is also given in: Stan Cohen: EAST WIND
RAIN [Missoula, MT: Pictorial Histories Pub; 1981, revised 1991,
corrected 1994, retitled as ATTACK ON PEARL HARBOR - A Pictorial
History in 2000] page 97-98
--
Cub Driver
2005-05-13 22:21:51 UTC
Permalink
There were several student pilots in the air during the Pearl Harbor
attack. There's a biography of Cornelia Fort that details her
experience on December 7; she tells the story that it was a Piper J-3
Cub, but evidently her log books indicate that it was another
airplane.

As you may know, the student in a Piper Cub rides in the back, since
that's where he has to solo the plane because of its weight
distribution. This means that his vision is more limited than that of
the instructor in front.

As Fort tells the story, one of the Cubs (the instructor was male) had
just taken off when the instructor realized that something really bad
was happening. There was no intercom in 1940s civil training planes,
and anyhow he was presumably focussed on what else was going on. So he
made his way back to the field, landed, jumped out, and turned around
to tell his student to clear the area.

The student was big-eyed and sorrowful, and of course had seen nothing
of the aerial attack. "Don't I get to fly today?" he said.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email ***@mailblocks.com (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com
--
David Aiken
2005-05-31 16:32:28 UTC
Permalink
Aloha Dan,
Your summary is good and needs some tweeking for detail. You spoke of
Cornelia Fort's story ...when her student asked as they were taxiing in
to the hangar area 'am I to solo today' and her aircraft, an Interstate
Cadet.

The male instructor pilot flying a Piper Cub was Robert Tice...and his
student was in another Piper Cub on a 'cross country' (meaning 'around
the island') flight when they were attacked and the student was shot
down (bailed out and lived thru WWII), Tice landed and was hit by a
strafer and killed.

Hope this helps,
David
Post by Cub Driver
There were several student pilots in the air during the Pearl Harbor
attack. There's a biography of Cornelia Fort that details her
experience on December 7; she tells the story that it was a Piper J-3
Cub, but evidently her log books indicate that it was another
airplane.
As you may know, the student in a Piper Cub rides in the back, since
that's where he has to solo the plane because of its weight
distribution. This means that his vision is more limited than that of
the instructor in front.
As Fort tells the story, one of the Cubs (the instructor was male) had
just taken off when the instructor realized that something really bad
was happening. There was no intercom in 1940s civil training planes,
and anyhow he was presumably focussed on what else was going on. So he
made his way back to the field, landed, jumped out, and turned around
to tell his student to clear the area.
The student was big-eyed and sorrowful, and of course had seen nothing
of the aerial attack. "Don't I get to fly today?" he said.
-- all the best, Dan Ford
Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com
--
--
r***@AOL.COM
2005-05-15 02:38:37 UTC
Permalink
Two SOC "Seagulls" from heavy crusier NORTHAMPTON
(CA26) were patroling off shore when jumped by Zero. Pilots
dove down to water to give gunners clear field of fire. As
Zero made passes gunners returned fire. One gunner ran
out of ammunition, but other noticed Zero would "mush"
pulling out of run and made adjustments. Was able to
shoot up engine and force A/C to crash on Nihau island
where pilot and Japanese resident terrorized residents until
one Hawaian (after being wounded) killed the Japanese
pilot by bashing his head against stone wall. Don't know
if gunners got credit for the kill.
--
Merlin Dorfman
2005-05-24 00:00:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@AOL.COM
Two SOC "Seagulls" from heavy crusier NORTHAMPTON
(CA26) were patroling off shore when jumped by Zero. Pilots
...
Post by r***@AOL.COM
pulling out of run and made adjustments. Was able to
shoot up engine and force A/C to crash on Nihau island
The references I've been able to find say that the pilot who
landed on Niihau was shot down by Army P-36s. Do you have a cite
for the Northampton's scout planes being responsible?
--
Bill Shatzer
2005-05-24 16:24:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Merlin Dorfman
Post by r***@AOL.COM
Two SOC "Seagulls" from heavy crusier NORTHAMPTON
(CA26) were patroling off shore when jumped by Zero. Pilots
pulling out of run and made adjustments. Was able to
shoot up engine and force A/C to crash on Nihau island
The references I've been able to find say that the pilot who
landed on Niihau was shot down by Army P-36s.
That, of course, it -one- of the stories. Quite frankly, I'm
sceptical of all of them and I really doubt anyone knows who
or what inflicted the eventually fatal damage on the "Niihau Zero"

The only person who could have possibly known was the pilot,
Nishikaichi. He of course, was killed by the native Hawaiians.
The only person Nishikaichi might have told how his a/c was
damaged was the Japanese collaborator on Niihau as Nishikaichi
spoke no English (or Hawaiian). The collaborator was likewise
killed in the "Native uprising".

Thus the only persons who might have had first hand knowledge or
even second hand knowledge were deceased long before the Army
Intellegence types might have had an opportunity to question them.

I'm sure every one and his brother put in a claim on the
"Niihau Zero", right down to the Army-types plinking away
with 1903 Springfields at Schofield Barracks. But as Nishikaichi
managed to make it nearly 200 miles from Pearl to Niihau, the
eventually fatal damage was unlikely to have been readily
apparent to whoever (or whosever - there might have been more
than one) inflicted it.

Moreover, there were a LOT of Zeroes in the air and a LOT
of folks shooting at 'em. Picking out Nishikaichi's a/c
from among the 70 or so Zeroes in the air over Oahu would
seem impossible.

In short, it seems unlikely that the source of the damage
which eventually brought down Nishikaichi's Zero is known
or that it can ever be known. Or even the subject of informed
guesses.

Cheers,





--

"Cave ab homine unius libri"
--
David Aiken
2005-05-31 16:32:30 UTC
Permalink
Hi Merlin,
The P-36 story is written in FLIGHT JOURNAL, Oct 2002, and is on line
at: http://www.flightjournal.com/articles/lost_p-36/sterling1.asp The
P-36s were involved with two SORYU Zeros. The HIRYU Zero crashed on
Niihau after being hit by ground fire from Bellows Field.
Hope this helps,
David Aiken
Post by Merlin Dorfman
Post by r***@AOL.COM
Two SOC "Seagulls" from heavy crusier NORTHAMPTON
(CA26) were patroling off shore when jumped by Zero. Pilots
...
Post by r***@AOL.COM
pulling out of run and made adjustments. Was able to
shoot up engine and force A/C to crash on Nihau island
The references I've been able to find say that the pilot who
landed on Niihau was shot down by Army P-36s. Do you have a cite
for the Northampton's scout planes being responsible?
--
--
Ben M. Schorr
2005-06-01 16:02:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Aiken
The P-36 story is written in FLIGHT JOURNAL, Oct 2002, and is on line
at: http://www.flightjournal.com/articles/lost_p-36/sterling1.asp The
P-36s were involved with two SORYU Zeros. The HIRYU Zero crashed on
Niihau after being hit by ground fire from Bellows Field.
Wow, it flew quite a ways after being hit. That must have been at least
30-45 minutes of flight time. I suppose he hoped he could make it back to
the carrier, got a little disoriented, realized he wouldn't make it and
tried to land on Niihau.
--
-Ben-
USS Missouri FAQ: http://home.hawaii.rr.com/schorr/Politics/MightyMoFAQ.htm
--
David Aiken
2005-05-31 16:32:32 UTC
Permalink
Hi Restey9,
In my correspondence with both SOC gunners and the surviving pilot (the
other pilot died long ago, tho his widow was of great help), they
could give enough data to assure that this attacking Zero was only
damaged and was NOT the plane which crashed on Niihau. They also have a
neat story!
Cheers,
David Aiken
--
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