Discussion:
In Passage Perilous: Malta, June 1942
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Haydn
2012-11-13 22:08:52 UTC
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Vincent O'Hara's new book, In Passage Perilous: Malta and the Convoy
Battles of 1942 - has just been released by Indiana University Press. It
covers the Harpoon and Vigorous convoys in great detail and also looks
at the subject of keeping Malta supplied and the actual role Malta
played in reducing Axis traffic to Africa. It relies heavily on reports
filed during and shortly after events by the Italian and British units
and commands involved. A must have for all those interested in the subject.

I've already ordered a copy. O'Hara's naval history works are solidly
built around hard data and facts, barring the way to preconceived ideas,
received wisdom and long heavily trodden commonplaces. In cooperation
with other naval historians around the world, he produced the most
significant comparison of all major WWII navies - and his reappraisal of
the fighting power and performance of the French and Italian navies
stands out as a remarkable achievement, set against the background of 60
years of neglect and slander.

Haydn
Michael Emrys
2012-11-24 23:37:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Haydn
I've already ordered a copy.
Mine got here on Monday and I am already well into it. Looks really good
and I especially like his appreciation of the impact of the British
decision to make a fight in the Mediterranean on the overall strategic
flow of the war.

Michael
Padraigh ProAmerica
2012-11-24 23:55:45 UTC
Permalink
Anyone who has studied the naval war realizes the Italians had a decent
Navy that was crippled by incompetent leadership.

--
"Some things take a set amount of time. You can't get a baby in one
month by getting nine women pregnant."--

Unknown
Bay Man
2012-11-25 19:21:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Padraigh ProAmerica
Anyone who has studied the naval war realizes the Italians had a decent
Navy that was crippled by incompetent leadership.
I thought British planes, ships and subs did that. Also having little fuel
didn't help.
Malcom "Mal" Reynolds
2012-11-26 00:07:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bay Man
Post by Padraigh ProAmerica
Anyone who has studied the naval war realizes the Italians had a decent
Navy that was crippled by incompetent leadership.
I thought British planes, ships and subs did that. Also having little fuel
didn't help.
so you're saying that British planes, ships and subs make the Italian leadership
incompetent?
Bay Man
2012-11-29 16:18:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malcom "Mal" Reynolds
Post by Bay Man
Post by Padraigh ProAmerica
Anyone who has studied the naval war realizes the Italians had a decent
Navy that was crippled by incompetent leadership.
I thought British planes, ships and subs did that. Also having little fuel
didn't help.
so you're saying that British planes, ships and subs make the Italian leadership
incompetent?
It was crippled by the RN. The Italian navy were good a small one man
torpedoes.
Padraigh ProAmerica
2012-11-29 16:40:54 UTC
Permalink
Re: In Passage Perilous: Malta, June 1942

Group: soc.history.war.world-war-ii Date: Thu, Nov 29, 2012, 11:18am
From: ***@xyxmailinator.xyxcomnospam (Bay Man)
"Malcom "Mal" Reynolds" <atlas-***@invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:atlas-bugged-***@news.solani.org...
In article <k8tb92$e70$***@dont-email.me>, "Bay Man"
<***@xyxmailinator.xyxcomnospam> wrote:
"Padraigh ProAmerica" <***@webtv.net> wrote in message news:6274-50B15DDE-***@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net...
Anyone who has studied the naval war realizes the Italians had a decent
Navy that was crippled by incompetent leadership.
I thought British planes, ships and subs did that. Also having little
fuel
didn't help.
so you're saying that British planes, ships and subs make the Italian
leadership
incompetent?
It was crippled by the RN. The Italian navy were good a small one man
torpedoes.

====================

The Italian manned torpedoes (known as 'Pigs') had a two-man crew.

One is on display at the Submarine Force Museum in New London, CT.

--
"Some things take a set amount of time. You can't get a baby in one
month by getting nine women pregnant."--

Unknown
Mario
2012-11-30 19:58:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Padraigh ProAmerica
It was crippled by the RN. The Italian navy were good a small
one man torpedoes.
====================
The Italian manned torpedoes (known as 'Pigs') had a two-man
crew.
One is on display at the Submarine Force Museum in New London,
CT.
There is an interesting anecdote I read in a book by Oreste Del
Buono, Italian journalist and writer, who was a relative of
Teseo Tesei, the man who invented the SLC (Siluro a Lenta
Corsa, slow course torpedo) together with Toschi.

Tesei was not a Regia Marina captain, he was an officer in the
Navy Engineer Corps, and as such he was not allowed to command
ships.

So when he made his first SLC his superiors forbade him to pilot
it. He had to protest hard to cancel that veto.
--
H
Malcom "Mal" Reynolds
2012-11-29 19:54:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bay Man
Post by Malcom "Mal" Reynolds
Post by Bay Man
Post by Padraigh ProAmerica
Anyone who has studied the naval war realizes the Italians had a decent
Navy that was crippled by incompetent leadership.
I thought British planes, ships and subs did that. Also having little fuel
didn't help.
so you're saying that British planes, ships and subs make the Italian leadership
incompetent?
It was crippled by the RN. The Italian navy were good a small one man
torpedoes.
what does that have to do with anything. On the one hand you are saying the navy
was crippled by incompetent leadership but on the other you are saying the
Italian navy was on on these torpedoes.
Bay Man
2012-11-29 20:59:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malcom "Mal" Reynolds
Post by Bay Man
Post by Malcom "Mal" Reynolds
Post by Bay Man
Post by Padraigh ProAmerica
Anyone who has studied the naval war realizes the Italians had a
decent Navy that was crippled by incompetent leadership.
I thought British planes, ships and subs did that. Also having little fuel
didn't help.
so you're saying that British planes, ships and subs make the Italian leadership
incompetent?
It was crippled by the RN. The Italian navy were good a small one
man torpedoes.
what does that have to do with anything. On the one hand you are
saying the navy was crippled by incompetent leadership
and the RN when the leadership was fine.
Post by Malcom "Mal" Reynolds
but on the
other you are saying the Italian navy was on on these torpedoes.
They were advanced in manned torpedoes.
Malcom "Mal" Reynolds
2012-11-30 05:10:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bay Man
Post by Malcom "Mal" Reynolds
Post by Bay Man
Post by Malcom "Mal" Reynolds
Post by Bay Man
Post by Padraigh ProAmerica
Anyone who has studied the naval war realizes the Italians had a decent
Navy that was crippled by incompetent leadership.
I thought British planes, ships and subs did that. Also having little
fuel didn't help.
so you're saying that British planes, ships and subs make the Italian
leadership incompetent?
It was crippled by the RN. The Italian navy were good a small one man
torpedoes.
what does that have to do with anything. On the one hand you are saying the
navy was crippled by incompetent leadership
and the RN when the leadership was fine.
so to make this clear, the Italians were crippled by their incompetence but the
RN was crippled when everything was fine?
Post by Bay Man
Post by Malcom "Mal" Reynolds
but on the other you are saying the Italian navy was on on these torpedoes.
They were advanced in manned torpedoes.
designed and approved by that very same incompetent leadership?
Malcom "Mal" Reynolds
2012-11-29 19:55:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bay Man
Post by Malcom "Mal" Reynolds
Post by Bay Man
Post by Padraigh ProAmerica
Anyone who has studied the naval war realizes the Italians had a decent
Navy that was crippled by incompetent leadership.
I thought British planes, ships and subs did that. Also having little fuel
didn't help.
so you're saying that British planes, ships and subs make the Italian leadership
incompetent?
It was crippled by the RN. The Italian navy were good a small one man
torpedoes.
The Brits may have defeated the Italians but their actions didn't make the
leadership incompetent.
k***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2012-11-30 16:21:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malcom "Mal" Reynolds
The Brits may have defeated the Italians but their actions didn't
make the leadership incompetent.
The effectiveness of the Italian navy can be summed up as inversely
proportional to ship size. There were several reasons for that. The
italians were short on oil and big ships need more oil. Mussolini was
worried about losing prestige units and limited operations and the
limited fuel hampered training.

However the Italians did at least as well as the Germans and probably
better given their geographical limitations.

Ken Young
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