Discussion:
Propaganda and Policy
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Don Phillipson
2016-08-20 14:09:52 UTC
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David Cesarani's (posthumous) "The fate of the Jews 1933-1949" (Macmillan
2016) is discussed in the Times Literary Supplement by Mark Roseman at
http://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/the-last-word/

The problem (Roseman says) is classic, "the one and the many," or how to
combine in a single idea, "the Holocaust," the whole variety of actual
events -- just as difficult perhaps as combining in a single concept "Jew"
both Michael Millken's financial inventions and Tevye worrying about how to
marry off his daughters. Roseman points out the contrast over time: "In the
1930s the goal was to uproot German Jews and dispatch them to whichever part
of the globe they would go, beyond German reach. In the 1940s, it was to
contain, concentrate and eliminate European Jewry."

" . . . Both intentionalists and functionalists shared the belief that the
regime's goals were too irrational to have been embraced by thinking elites,
since neither genocide nor destructive war was in their interest. Therefore,
a special kind of force was needed to push them over the edge into the
abyss, as it were despite themselves. The argument was about what this
special force was - a charismatic Hitler with a plan, or an unbalanced
political structure that impelled competition and radicalization. "

" . . . In Hamburg in 1943 and in Hungary in 1944 significant sections of
the population believed that Allied bombing was retribution for the
persecution of the Jews. This was utterly fantastical, as Cesarani shows
repeatedly that Jews barely figured on the Allied agenda. Contrary to Nazi
myth-making, there was no coherent Jewish voice at the national level in
either London or Washington, let alone a Jewish world power."
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

?
IndSyd
2016-08-26 13:23:47 UTC
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True DP -
Post by Don Phillipson
Contrary to Nazi
myth-making, there was no coherent Jewish voice at the national
level in either London or Washington,
let alone a Jewish world power.<

There's such irrationality in demonising groups of people.
The Nazi racial theories made the Jews sub human, they were
inferior and a dirty race!
They how were the Jews also supposed to be secretly
behind the scenes manipulators of whole countries
and their governments?

How did this contradiction set, I wonder?
Kenneth Young
2016-08-26 13:42:39 UTC
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Post by IndSyd
How did this contradiction set, I wonder?
Conspiracy theories of history are a long tradition dating back to the
Rosicruans the international Jewish conspiracy was merely the latest as
for considering them sub-human that did not prevent them also to be
considered cunning. Jews were certainly prominent with the most visible
being the Rothschilds but there were others. The Slavs were also
considered sub-human but were acknowledged as dangerous.
Rich Rostrom
2016-08-26 19:33:28 UTC
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Post by IndSyd
The Nazi racial theories made the Jews sub human, they were
inferior and a dirty race!
They how were the Jews also supposed to be secretly
behind the scenes manipulators of whole countries
and their governments?
The Jews were supposed to be inferior in
physique and moral character to the Aryan.
"Degenerate", which could mean a lot of
things.

Nothing about that contradicted the idea
of Jews as clever manipulators. The weak,
clever man is a stock figure in drama and
literature, going back to the ancients.
--
The real Velvet Revolution - and the would-be hijacker.

http://originalvelvetrevolution.com
Don Phillipson
2016-08-27 13:21:57 UTC
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Post by IndSyd
There's such irrationality in demonising groups of people.
The Nazi racial theories made the Jews sub human, they were
inferior and a dirty race!
They how were the Jews also supposed to be secretly
behind the scenes manipulators of whole countries
and their governments?
How did this contradiction set, I wonder?
This was known in the 1930s to be a good debating
point: the practical trouble was that the avowedly
revolutionary Nazi government of 1933 hardly ever
worried about logical consistency. They simply
exploited (and deliberately enhanced) the images
already common in "human nature."

This habit was gently guyed in the Flanders & Swan
"English Song" of 1956, found at:
http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/folk-song-lyrics/English.htm
The English are moral the English are good
And clever and modest and misunderstood.
Since that date we (1) know more about the Holocaust,
(2) have discovered PC, which rules even jokes illegitimate:
(and so did the Nazis.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
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