Discussion:
Guam
(too old to reply)
news
2013-07-19 04:17:23 UTC
Permalink
Just watched a History Channel episode about Guam and while I can think
of many reasons it might be impractical, I'm wondering why the month
long bombardment so obviously gave the clue as to where the landings
would be...I mean they could have bombarded the other side of the island
and it might have taken enough Japanese from the west side to make a
small difference
WJHopwood
2013-07-20 22:23:53 UTC
Permalink
...about Guam... the month long bombardment so
obviously gave the clue...where the landings would be
...they could have bombarded the other side of the
island and it might have taken enough Japanese from
the west side to make a small difference
I doubt it. Guam is only 9 miles wide. The island
was surrounded by reefs, surfs ran high, and some
of the shoreline had cliffs, all of which limited suitable
landing sites. Having been there before Japan took
it from the U.S. after Pearl Harbor, the U.S. was quite
familiar with the terrain and knew the best landing
areas. So did the Japanese. They knew where the U.S.
landings were most likely to be made and would not
have been fooled by decoy bombardments on the other
side of the island.

WJH
w***@hotmail.com
2013-07-22 13:23:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by news
...I mean they could have bombarded the other side of the island
and it might have taken enough Japanese from the west side to make a
small difference
The Americans did not need to attempt a diversionary bombardment on the
east side of Guam. What they needed, and what they got, was an Admiral
by the name of Richard Conolly, whose nickname was "Close-In Conolly".
He believed that, for effective enemy target acquisition and spotting,
bombardment support ships had to be very close to the landing beaches.
His destroyers and other vessels were able to spot Japanese sniper
and other small installations and take out a lot of those positions
prior to the 3rd MarDiv, 1st Provisional Marine Brigade, and the Army's
77th Infantry Division landing on the west side of the island.

Tim Watkins

"Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man. Landing is the first".
news
2013-07-22 17:18:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by w***@hotmail.com
bombardment support ships had to be very close to the landing beaches.
His destroyers and other vessels were able to spot Japanese sniper
and other small installations and take out a lot of those positions
prior to the 3rd MarDiv, 1st Provisional Marine Brigade, and the Army's
77th Infantry Division landing on the west side of the island.
I'm sorry, but I just cannot imagine a ship being close enough to shore
that they could spot a sniper. Snipes tend to hide behind some form of
cover so that the troops they are engaging cannot spot them. Now we are
to believe that snipers could be spotted from a ship offshore?
Phil McGregor
2013-07-23 05:39:30 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 22 Jul 2013 13:18:26 -0400, "news"
Post by news
Post by w***@hotmail.com
bombardment support ships had to be very close to the landing beaches.
His destroyers and other vessels were able to spot Japanese sniper
and other small installations and take out a lot of those positions
prior to the 3rd MarDiv, 1st Provisional Marine Brigade, and the Army's
77th Infantry Division landing on the west side of the island.
I'm sorry, but I just cannot imagine a ship being close enough to shore
that they could spot a sniper. Snipes tend to hide behind some form of
cover so that the troops they are engaging cannot spot them. Now we are
to believe that snipers could be spotted from a ship offshore?
Binoculars? USN used 20 x 120 mm ones (that's 20x magnification with a
120mm objective lense) ... for long range spotting.

"Getting close" with *those* would not be all *that* 'close' even
against a man-sized target.

Any problems would be with seeing the Sniper through the camouflage -
but I suspect that they were camoed for chort range visibility from
the ground, not from a vehicle a klick or so offshore.

Not easy, granted, but nowhere near impossible.
p***@gmail.com
2013-07-23 18:59:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by news
I'm sorry, but I just cannot imagine a ship being close enough to shore
that they could spot a sniper.
It probably would be more correct and believable if we substitute the older
term "sharpshooter" - a guy hiding behind a rock or sandbag with a rifle. I think
most people get a very different, modern idea in mind when we hear sniper. We
think of guys in Ghillie suits and face paint with high-powered telescopic sights,
stalking a single target.

Alan Meyer
2013-07-22 18:30:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by news
Just watched a History Channel episode about Guam and while I can think
of many reasons it might be impractical, I'm wondering why the month
long bombardment so obviously gave the clue as to where the landings
would be...I mean they could have bombarded the other side of the island
and it might have taken enough Japanese from the west side to make a
small difference
The tactic you are recommending here was used successfully on Okinawa.

Deception is such an obvious tactic (sounds like a paradox doesn't it?)
that it's extremely unlikely that no one considered it. It may be that,
as WJ Hopwood suggests, deception was thought not to be useful on Guam,
or as Tim Watkins suggests, there was another strategy (close-in naval
support) that was expected to be more effective.

Both the American and the Japanese tactics evolved over the course of
the war, becoming more sophisticated as they incorporated lessons
learned from previous battles. Still, in the final analysis, Japanese
resistance was so incredibly stubborn that it was hard to win by
brilliant tactics. It usually boiled down to, first, saturating their
positions with explosives and incendiaries, then assaulting their
positions and blowing them up, burning them, or shooting them at close
range.

There were many other do or die struggles in Europe, on all fronts, but
I doubt if any were more ferocious than the battles on the Pacific
islands. I also doubt that any other armed force enjoying even half the
material superiority of the Americans over the Japanese, suffered
anything like the heavy casualties that the Marines suffered.

Alan
w***@hotmail.com
2013-07-23 17:34:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by news
..I mean they could have bombarded the other side of the island
and it might have taken enough Japanese from the west side to make a
small difference
Some have opined in this topic that it would be impossible to spot a
Japanese sniper on an island being assaulted. It might be impossible
to see an individual sniper, but not the installation, cave, pillbox,
bunker, or revetment. Read the post again. I'm talking about small
installations, where a sniper might be holed up, especially if he is in a position to fire enfillade at the northernmost or southernmost end of an assault
beach. Spotters on close-in vessels would probably see movement in some
of these positions, whether they be snipers, small-arms troops, machine
gunners, or mortar or rocket positions. "Close-In Conolly" was able to
take out some of these landing beach enemy positions with accurate 5 inch
and 40mm shell fire. And he undoubtedly took out many wanna-be snipers.

Tim Watkins

"Tonight lads, you go to the "Big City" (known by air crews to be Berlin).
Tonight you have the opportunity to light a fire in the belly of the beast,
and burn his black heart out". - Sir Arthur "Bomber" Harris, briefing an
RAF bomber crew before a mission.
Loading...