Discussion:
Italian government and the Partisans
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Rich Rostrom
2014-06-06 22:55:01 UTC
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Italy surrendered to the Allies and became a "co-belligerent"
against the Axis. Some elements of the Italian army began
fighting against German forces almost immediately, though
most surrendered or dispersed. Italian forces continued to
fight the Germans off and on until the end of the war.

But during this period, much of Italy was occupied by the
Germans, and many Italian civilians in the occupied area
took up arms against the Germans.

In other German-occupied areas, the government-in-exile
sought to control and direct such "partisan" resistance.
This was the case in Poland, Norway, Yugoslavia, Greece,
France, the Netherlands, and Czechoslovakia.

In France, Yugoslavia, and Greece, much of the Partisan
force were Communists, who in varying degrees ignored or
opposed or even fought against the pre-war regime.

This also seems to have been the case in Italy; but there
were at least some Partisans who were not Communists.

Did the Italian government (exiled from Rome if not from
the country) make any effort to recruit or direct the
operations of Partisans in German-occupied Italy? With
what results?

More generally, did the Italian government attempt any
covert operations against the German occupiers or their
Fascist stooges of the RSI?
--
The real Velvet Revolution - and the would-be hijacker.

http://originalvelvetrevolution.com
Mario
2014-06-07 19:08:53 UTC
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[ X-post to it.cultura.storia.militare (mod) ]
Post by Rich Rostrom
Italy surrendered to the Allies and became a "co-belligerent"
against the Axis. Some elements of the Italian army began
fighting against German forces almost immediately, though
most surrendered or dispersed. Italian forces continued to
fight the Germans off and on until the end of the war.
But during this period, much of Italy was occupied by the
Germans, and many Italian civilians in the occupied area
took up arms against the Germans.
In other German-occupied areas, the government-in-exile
sought to control and direct such "partisan" resistance.
This was the case in Poland, Norway, Yugoslavia, Greece,
France, the Netherlands, and Czechoslovakia.
In France, Yugoslavia, and Greece, much of the Partisan
force were Communists, who in varying degrees ignored or
opposed or even fought against the pre-war regime.
This also seems to have been the case in Italy; but there
were at least some Partisans who were not Communists.
Did the Italian government (exiled from Rome if not from
the country) make any effort to recruit or direct the
operations of Partisans in German-occupied Italy? With
what results?
More generally, did the Italian government attempt any
covert operations against the German occupiers or their
Fascist stooges of the RSI?
--
__
/ \------< ==o
<OOOOO>_____________
Maurizio Pistone
2014-06-08 11:36:30 UTC
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[cut]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_Committee
--
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http://blog.mauriziopistone.it
http://www.lacabalesta.it
http://blog.ilpugnonellocchio.it
Haydn
2014-06-08 17:57:22 UTC
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Post by Rich Rostrom
but there
were at least some Partisans who were not Communists.
Actually all non-Communist - Socialist, liberal-democrat, Christian
democrat, Royalist, anarchist, republican and independent - "brigades"
(the typical partisan combat unit: the makeup and numbers of each
brigade varied considerably) taken together exceeded, though not by
much, the 575 Communist brigades.
Post by Rich Rostrom
Did the Italian government (exiled from Rome if not from
the country) make any effort to recruit or direct the
operations of Partisans in German-occupied Italy? With
what results?
The partisan "army" was, often rather loosely, under the command of a
partisan supreme headquarters known as CLN, National Liberation
Committee. In fact most brigades also took orders from the political
party they belonged to.

CLN was a joint organization made up by representatives of all parties
and movements fighting against the Germans. The Southern Kingdom, that
is the rump of the pre-war and wartime State and government headed by
the king and his ministers after the armistice, could claim an amount of
influence only on the not many Royalist partisans. All other parties
were hostile, to various degrees, to the royalty and its government and
CLN tended to be quite independent of the government and usually got in
touch and dealt directly with the Allies for military aid and
cooperation and political discussions.
Post by Rich Rostrom
More generally, did the Italian government attempt any
covert operations against the German occupiers or their
Fascist stooges of the RSI?
Intelligence operatives and sometimes commando teams of both sides
crossed the front line, by land, air and sea, all the time. The
government in the South still maintained an effective intelligence
network (basically the wartime one, whereas little was left of it in
Mussolini's republic) that both operated in the North on its own and
backed up Allied recon, partisan support, intelligence and
counterintelligence operations.

The latter were greatly facilitated by that network, which was all the
better for them as both the Germans, in particular the Luftwaffe Dora
Group, and their Fascist allies, tried to saturate Allied
counterintelligence defenses with hundreds of Italian spies infiltrating
into the South.

A lexicon issue. We may call those collaborationists stooges, but that
is not what many of them thought they were, of course. Civilian spies
paradropped onto or crossing the front line into Allied-controlled
territory faced death all the time during the mission or if identified
and arrested. Many did it for money or for other personal motives, but
many did it for ideal reasons, believing they were doing the right thing
for their country.

Haydn
Rich Rostrom
2014-06-13 22:56:20 UTC
Permalink
Haydn <***@hotmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for a very informative answer.
Post by Haydn
Intelligence operatives and sometimes commando teams of both sides
crossed the front line, by land, air and sea, all the time.
The government in the South still maintained an effective intelligence
network (basically the wartime one, whereas little was left of it in
Mussolini's republic)...
This is unclear. "Network" usually refers to
coverage by area. The above would indicate
that the KoI's service remained functional in
the south but not in RSI territory.
Post by Haydn
that both operated in the North on its own and
backed up Allied recon, partisan support, intelligence and
counterintelligence operations.
But this indicates it did function there.

I think what is meant is that the KoI
retained control of the national intelligence
service, with very few of its staff or field
operatives going over to the RSI.
Post by Haydn
The latter were greatly facilitated by that network, which was all the
better for them as both the Germans, in particular the Luftwaffe Dora
Group, and their Fascist allies, tried to saturate Allied
counterintelligence defenses with hundreds of Italian spies infiltrating
into the South.
That's a potentially interesting story. The
Allies would be vulnerable. But with the KoI's
service at work, these infiltrators were
defeated?

Incidentally, this would be an _internal_
security issue, more or less. The peculiar
situation in Italy in 1943-1945 commingled
internal security with espionage.
Post by Haydn
A lexicon issue. We may call those collaborationists stooges, but that
is not what many of them thought they were, of course.
The RSI was a creation and creature of Germany.
Its near total dependence on Germany was clear
to everyone, even its own leaders.
--
The real Velvet Revolution - and the would-be hijacker.

http://originalvelvetrevolution.com
Michele
2014-06-09 14:39:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Rostrom
Italy surrendered to the Allies and became a "co-belligerent"
against the Axis. Some elements of the Italian army began
fighting against German forces almost immediately, though
most surrendered or dispersed. Italian forces continued to
fight the Germans off and on until the end of the war.
But during this period, much of Italy was occupied by the
Germans, and many Italian civilians in the occupied area
took up arms against the Germans.
In other German-occupied areas, the government-in-exile
sought to control and direct such "partisan" resistance.
This was the case in Poland, Norway, Yugoslavia, Greece,
France, the Netherlands, and Czechoslovakia.
In France, Yugoslavia, and Greece, much of the Partisan
force were Communists, who in varying degrees ignored or
opposed or even fought against the pre-war regime.
This also seems to have been the case in Italy; but there
were at least some Partisans who were not Communists.
Did the Italian government (exiled from Rome if not from
the country) make any effort to recruit or direct the
operations of Partisans in German-occupied Italy? With
what results?
More generally, did the Italian government attempt any
covert operations against the German occupiers or their
Fascist stooges of the RSI?
The influence of the Italian government of the South was stronger, on
the National Liberation Committee, than some seem to think. Just
consider that the founding leader of the Committee was Bonomi - who also
was the government's prime minister.

Note that republicans, some extreme left-wing communist movements not
belonging to the PCI, and some anarchists did not join the CLN - exactly
because it ultimately went back to the monarchy.

However, the CLN was the political hat of the Resistance. Military units
enjoyed a considerable degree of autonomy, some more than others.
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