British Guns

[Tiglath]

Starting July 1040 with the
arrival by sea of 200,000
American rifles, Great Britain
became an armed nation.

What happened to all those guns
after the war?

Were some people allowed to keep
rifles and handguns? Were all
confiscated in a big
country sweep, or gradually?
Do gun laws account for veterans
that may keep their
service arms?

My own experience in England is
that no guns, even those, are allowed
for citizens
to own, but maybe I am wrong.

[Rich]

Post by Tiglath
Starting July 1040 with the
arrival by sea of 200,000
American rifles, Great Britain
became an armed nation.

Huh? They also got artillery pieces, machine guns, mortars, etc.
Do you think they just opened the crates on the docks and said
"hey chaps, whyn't you take what you want"? They were British
MOD orders, shipped to the British military, for issue to British
military units - the Home Guard was a military organization too -
and held in British military arsenals.

[John Dallman]

Starting July 1040 with the arrival by sea of 200,000
American rifles, Great Britain became an armed nation.

Well, they went into military stocks, and were issued in the usual way
and handed back in when soldiers left service or (I suspect) moved units.
Our military had quite a lot of weapons already, though they were short
of what was needed for expanding forces.

The guns weren't handed out to the citizenry, they were used by organised
forces, mostly the Home Guard (so as to avoid complicating the supply
arrangements for the main body of the Army). The Home Guard was in some
senses a "militia" but assuming it worked like the US idea of a militia
will send you on false leads.

Guns from the US did not come with US laws or ideas about guns attached
to them.

What happened to all those guns after the war? Were some people
allowed to keep rifles and handguns?

No. They were government property and were handed back in.

Were all confiscated in a big country sweep, or gradually?

There was no question of confiscation, because they were in the hands of
people subject to military discipline, and were handed in accordingly.

Do gun laws account for veterans that may keep their service arms?

No, we've never had anything like that AFAIK, certainly not as recently
as WWII. The situation of the Swiss is quite different.

My own experience in England is that no guns, even those, are allowed
for citizens to own, but maybe I am wrong.

Citizens were allowed to own quite a lot of firearms in the 1940s and
1950s, but the only way they'd have got any ex-military weapons would be
if the government sold them off.

John

[Dave Smith]

Post by John Dallman

Starting July 1040 with the arrival by sea of 200,000
American rifles, Great Britain became an armed nation.

Well, they went into military stocks, and were issued in the usual way
and handed back in when soldiers left service or (I suspect) moved units.
Our military had quite a lot of weapons already, though they were short
of what was needed for expanding forces.

My father joined the RCAF in 1940 and was sent overseas in 1941. We said
that when on night time guard duty they were armed with pitch forks.

Post by John Dallman
No. They were government property and were handed back in.

When I was in the reserves, all small arms were kept under lock and key
and under the control of the quartermaster. We drew them out only when
they were needed, which would be for drill, parades, firearms training
target practice, training exercises, and were always returned. We also
drew arms for our weapons tech training.

Post by John Dallman
Citizens were allowed to own quite a lot of firearms in the 1940s and
1950s, but the only way they'd have got any ex-military weapons would be
if the government sold them off.

A lot of small arms were sold to developing nations. As western
countries upgraded their small arms the poorer companies were getting
the old Lee Enfields. FWIW, the Canadian Rangers, a unit of Innuits in
the far north of Canada are just switching over from the .303 Lee
Enfield. It had served their purposes all this time.


When I was a kid in the 1950s there were a lot of old Lee Enfields being
sold at army surplus stores. I remember then being in bins in the
basement floor of the Eatons store in Toronto and they were selling for
$5.95 apiece. I had seen a couple in local gun shops recently and they
are now fetching $300-400. I still have the one I bought in 1966.
Judging from the amount of .303 ammunition I see in stores, there must
still be a lot of other people using them.

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

Starting July 1040 with the arrival by sea of 200,000
American rifles, Great Britain became an armed nation.

So the 34,416 0.303 inch rifles for the armed forces in 1939,
80,793 in 1940 were all exported?

Plus about half the above numbers of 0.303 inch machine
guns, admittedly mostly for the RAF.

Then add the civil gun trade, things like shotguns and
hunting rifles. Until 1937 a 14 year old could legally
buy a gun.

Military rifle production went down to 78,533 in 1941, then
increased, production 1942 to 1944 was, 594,889,
909,785 and 547,382. So about 2 million rifles versus
the estimated 1944 population of 49 million people if
you think it was an armed nation. In reality the military
had the weapons and also had around 5 million people
in 1944.

What happened to all those guns after the war?

Destroyed as surplus, obsolete or worn out, sold to
other militaries would be the main disposal methods.

Were some people allowed to keep rifles and handguns?

If you mean ones they had in the military, possible but unlikely,
certainly not official policy.

And you could and still can own rifles and hand guns in the UK
and Northern Ireland has less restrictive laws than the rest of
the UK.

Were all confiscated in a big country sweep, or gradually?

They were issued to military personnel and returned when
people left the service or were deemed to have duties not
requiring them.

Australia's modern buy back seems to intrude here.

Do gun laws account for veterans that may keep their service arms?

No.

My own experience in England is that no guns, even those, are allowed
for citizens to own, but maybe I am wrong.

Gun ownership is possible, there are as usual restrictions
on who can own them, what types of guns are allowed
and how they must be stored.

Note for example British athletes compete in Olympic shooting
sports, is the idea the government owns the guns they use?

Noted the many reports of the British (mostly) upper class hunting
activities, grouse, deer etc? Anyway it is not like they are going
near birds like the cassowary.

Try search strings like "Britain shooting clubs".

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.

[Tiglath]

Thank you all.

Likely won't post here again.
Moved to friendlier (unmoderated) groups.

Cheers

[Rich]

You'll be missed.

Cheers!

[Don Phillipson]

Post by Tiglath
My own experience in England is
that no guns, even those, are allowed
for citizens to own, but maybe I am wrong.

What did you suppose all those gunsmith's stores
are for? Or what the despised grouse shooters use?