Midway

[Bill Shatzer]

Is it pretty much accepted now that Mitscher was responsible for Ring's
"Flight to Nowhere" with the Hornet's SBD and F$F squadrons? And that he
then covered up his responsibility for this kerfuffle?

I hadn't read anything on Midway for several years, kinda figuring that
everything there was to say had already been said. But I just finished
reading two books ("The Battle of Midway", Symonds and "A Dawn Like
Thunder", Mrazek) which seem to place the responsibility (blame?)
squarely on Mitscher.

And if Ring was flying the "wrong" course, not because of mistake or
navigational error or sheer cussedness on Ring's part, but rather on
Mitscher's orders because that's where Mitscher thought the "missing
carriers" were, why weren't any of the squadron commanders or other
pilots let in on the plan?

[a425couple]

Post by Bill Shatzer
Is it pretty much accepted now that Mitscher was responsible for Ring's
"Flight to Nowhere" ----
--- But I just finished reading two books ("The Battle of Midway", Symonds
and "A Dawn Like Thunder", Mrazek) which seem to place the responsibility
(blame?) squarely on Mitscher.

Only "seem to" ?

Post by Bill Shatzer
And if Ring was flying the "wrong" course, not because of mistake or
navigational error or sheer cussedness on Ring's part, but rather on
Mitscher's orders because ---

Anyway,,,, I do find one reviewer very decided & outspoken:
http://www.amazon.com/Dawn-Like-Thunder-Torpedo-Squadron/dp/0316056537
'8 of 8 people found the following review helpful
(5 stars) Midway, the story on a personal level
By Dr. H. Peter Metzger on January 28, 2009
To all the other rave reviews here, I can only add this. Having read many
books on the Battle of Midway, "A Dawn Like Thunder" brought out a new
dimension I've not seen before. Probably because Mrazek used so many
intimate sources, the book presents the characters on a personal level,
which makes it a far more interesting story. What this new information shows
is that as remarkable as it was that America won the battle at all, how we
came even closer to losing it than I ever knew.

For example, one torpedo squadron located its targets "solely because he
(Waldron) disobeyed a direct order" from his incompetent commander (Ring),
who then flew off in the wrong direction all alone. Only when Ring returned
to the Hornet still alone and still armed did Ring ask to be taught which
button was the torpedo release.

Worse even than Ring was Commander Browning who tried to send another
squadron off the Enterprise with too many bombs and too little fuel, making
it certain that the pilots would have to ditch in the sea. An big argument
ensued and again, a lesser ranked officer (McClusky) spoke up such that
Admiral Spruance had to intervene, siding with the pilots.

When it was finally moved to Guadalcanal, Torpedo Eight was commanded so
severely, that on two occasions two men were moved to shoot their leader
(Swede Larson), one of whom actually aimed his loaded .45 to kill. Murder
was avoided in both cases but it was a near thing at that.'
--------------

Still, I'm confused. Did reviewer Metzger get such a negative
opinion about Ring from that book, or from elsewhere?

Arguing for it all being Mitscher's decisions, is the fact that Ring
was decorated, and got several promotions and commands
after this.
http://uss-hornet.org/stanhope_ring/index.shtml
Relatively few navy Captains get to be C.O.s of ships.
A big 'screw-up' is generally a disqualifier.
This source says Ring later commanded an escort carrier,
then two carriers, then a Carrier Division!

[Rich Rostrom]

Only when Ring returned to the Hornet still alone
and still armed did Ring ask to be taught which
button was the torpedo release.

Was Ring flying a TBD at Midway???

Ring was air group commander, so in theory could
have been flying any of the three types in the
strike - SBD, TBD, or F4F.

But he flew with VB-8 and VS-8, which flew SBDs.

I can't find a definite statement on this.

_Destined for Glory: Dive Bombing, Midway, and
the Evolution of Carrier Airpower_ by Thomas
Wildenberg sez:

Leading the way as they climbed to altitude was
Ring's three-plane command section, along with the
thirty-one _other_ dive bombers from VB-8 and VS-8.

(emphasis added)

This clearly implies that Ring's "command section",
including his own plane, were SBDs.

[a425couple]

Post by Rich Rostrom

Only when Ring returned to the Hornet still alone
and still armed did Ring ask to be taught which
button was the torpedo release.

Was Ring flying a TBD at Midway???

I believe we are thinking along same lines.

As I asked before:
-Still, I'm confused. Did reviewer Metzger get such a negative
-opinion about Ring from that book, or from elsewhere?

Yet another frustration.
For years, until not too long ago, if you went to GOOGLE,
a plonked in a unique quote,
such as what Metzger wrote (that was very 'anti-Ring')
- Only when Ring returned to the Hornet still alone

Post by Rich Rostrom
and still armed,

and if that quote was from a book, one of Google's
responses would take you to the page in the printed book
so you could #1 verify it, and #2 read the context yourself.

Now, Google does respond with the book,
but does not verify anything. Pugh!!

[a425couple]

Post by Bill Shatzer
Is it pretty much accepted now that Mitscher was responsible for Ring's
"Flight to Nowhere" with the Hornet's SBD and F$F squadrons? And that he
then covered up his responsibility for this kerfuffle?

Here is a site that somewhat explains Ring's view:
http://articles.latimes.com/1999/aug/29/news/mn-4792
'Admiral Speaks From the Grave About Midway Battle : WWII:
Vice Adm. Stanhope Cotton Ring lost 27 aircraft early in the conflict.
A 22-page letter he wrote in 1946, recently discovered by his family,
details what went wrong.
August 29, 1999|WILLIAM C. MANN | ASSOCIATED PRESS
---His analysis of what went wrong --mainly communication problems and
an inexperienced crew--agree with the evaluation of Adm. Chester W. Nimitz,
the Pacific commander in chief---'

So it certainly would seem, that the high powers did not hold
that Ring was at fault.
Although, that does not mean that Mitscher necessarily directed
Ring's flight direction.
In combat you have to make decisions when everything is foggy.
Some hunches may be right, some may be wrong.