disabilities of leaders

[dumbstruck]

I wonder how dysfunctional were the top leaders and diplomats
of ww2 belligerents. Did their medical, psychology, or other
condition significantly impact the start, conduct, or end of war?

There was a lot of diplomacy before the invasion of Poland for
instance, and it is clear that foreign ministers Ribbentrop and
Ciano irresponsibly advised their leaders be complacent about war.
BTW they were incompetent, and chosen by leaders not based on merit.

I have heard multiple accounts of folks trying to talk sense into
Ribbentrop, and claimed it was his missing kidney that made him
irrational and rigid thinking under stress. Ciano wised up just
days before the start of war, but was unable to get Mussolini to
stick to the overwhelming merits of neutrality because (he thot)
recurrence of Duce's syphilis infection affecting his brain.

Anyway, let me take a swag at the key players and what mind altering
problem they were alleged to have, and my naive judgement:

Hitler - Parkinson's disease and drug addictions? - I question if
these put him totally out of his mind, based on his very shrewd
handling of power struggles among his henchmen, even in 1945 as
I gather from memoirs of some scheming henchmen.

Stalin - Drinker, cognitive dissonance? - Thought to be paralyzed by
disbelief of an obvious invasion, although Zhukov disputes this and
called him not a drinker. Somebody tasted his glass after a drinking
round and found it alone was non-alcoholic.

Churchill - Drinker and depression? - From wiki I gather the new
take is that he was not in too much depression. I think he drank
enough to make me dysfunctional, but somehow thrived on it.

Mussolini - Syphilitic? - I was reminded how impactful this could
be before drugs when hearing of an aristocratic couple who traveled
with a straitjacket (much used) and a coffin always ready for the
infected hubby. But I guess untreated syphilis CAN go into remission.

FDR - Dying - Maybe gave Stalin too much at Yalta when sickly.

Ribbentrop - renal insufficiency? - Loss of one kidney shouldn't
normally make you unable to cleanse your blood. His mental rigidity
was why Hitler liked him (although bitter about his Polish advice).

Ciano - inept stooge? - Well, he was when first appointed foreign
minister, but gained more conscience and activism as war developed.
He was the Duce's son in law, which even overcame his poor piloting
skills in allowing him to participate in Ethiopian atrocities like
strafing civilians. Not a disability, although being a playboy was.

P.S. Re: atrocities, the book Soldaten relates a new dimension of
solitary and vandalistic attacks on random women and children. German
POW's thru the help of bugs discuss/rejoice in strafing UK children,
sniping French women presenting flowers to allies, and finishing a
"date" with Russian women with an armload of grenades. This is apart
from the well known organized atrocities; what if they had put that
effort into military targets instead?

[Don Phillipson]

Post by dumbstruck
I wonder how dysfunctional were the top leaders and diplomats
of ww2 belligerents. . . .
is clear that foreign ministers Ribbentrop and
Ciano irresponsibly advised their leaders be complacent about war.

What evidence substantiates this, viz. (1) complacency and
(2) irresponsibility with respect to constitutional duty? Most
political theory agrees subordinate ministers of a dictator
had no responsibility except to obey orders.

Post by dumbstruck
. . . Ciano wised up just
days before the start of war, but was unable to get Mussolini to
stick to the overwhelming merits of neutrality because (he thot)
recurrence of Duce's syphilis infection affecting his brain.

What evidence suggests Mussolini had tertiary syphilis in 1939-40?

[dumbstruck]

Post by Don Phillipson
What evidence substantiates this, viz. (1) complacency and
(2) irresponsibility with respect to constitutional duty? Most
political theory agrees subordinate ministers of a dictator
had no responsibility except to obey orders.

Not only Nuremberg, but Goering called Ribbentrop a war criminal for
encouraging Hitler to invade Poland with false assurances that the
allies wouldn't declare war. I forget the source of the Goering outburst
(to other henchmen) but it is seared in my memory because it was so
early (39) and unexpected. "Ribbentrop: a Biography" explains how upset
Hitler was after Ribbentrop's assurances didn't pan out. Also it shows
how Rib had plenty of warning of wider war, but maliciously lied to AH.

"Mussolini's Shadow: The Double Life of Count Galeazzo Ciano" shows
how he let Mussolini drift toward getting sucked into Hitler's war.
He ignored protests of the generals about unreadiness and acted the
playboy until last minute panics before Poland where he begged Duce to
face facts which should have been brought up earlier. Both Adolph and
Duce were unworldly and treated their more worldly, faintly aristocratic
foreign ministers as people with unique knowledge of the sophisticated
world they normally eschewed.

Post by Don Phillipson
What evidence suggests Mussolini had tertiary syphilis in 1939-40?

Besides Ciano, the book quoted an Italian (ex-diplomat?) letter to Lord
Halifax. However, I suppose these were loose speculations, as perhaps was
a bombshell about Duce's psych state from his daughters psychiatrist
records found in Bern about 20 years ago. Edda blamed her dysfunction
on her mother's domination of Duce (his stepsister... and wife!). There
is more to the story, but reminds me of Duce later passivity, not toward
his German captors but Italian fascist extremists. Also according to
Ciano he could be temporarily persuaded into anything, then changed his
mind between sinner and saint every couple hours (like Ciano).

But back to the main theme... I expect the various physical and mental
ailments of WW2 leaders were no worse than leaders of WW1 or earlier
wars. What made them more lethal than before was sort of a twisted
meritocracy. The fascist and communist leaders were not aristocratic
placeholders, but had to claw and persuade to come up from nothing. So
Hitler for instance could kick a stodgy bureaucracy into incredible
energy and allegiance. What they made happen even in the nonmilitary mode
was amazing, as was Duce and maybe Tojo. Often for the bad, like Stalin
killing 10 million farmers in the 20's. A testbed of populist utopianism.

[John Dallman]

Post by dumbstruck
There was a lot of diplomacy before the invasion of Poland for
instance, and it is clear that foreign ministers Ribbentrop and
Ciano irresponsibly advised their leaders be complacent about war.
BTW they were incompetent, and chosen by leaders not based on merit.

Ribbentrop was selected by Hitler because he always agreed with Hitler,
and indeed, often wanted to go slightly further. This was Ribbentrop's
natural way of working: he believed in Hitler and wanted to make things
happen in Hitler's way. Hitler liked this - he didn't seem to realise
that Ribbentrop was essentially parroting his own ideas back to him - and
was constantly annoyed by German's professional diplomats, who didn't
believe that war was the natural and correct course of action.

Ribbentrop's performance can't be measured using any kind of normal scale
of diplomatic competence (on which he was terrible) because that wasn't
what he was there for. "Nazi diplomacy" is pretty much an oxymoron.

John

[Rich Rostrom]

Post by dumbstruck
Churchill - Drinker and depression? - From wiki I gather the new
take is that he was not in too much depression.

Churchill had fits of depression - he called
it "the black dog" - but overcame it. Which is
not easy.

Post by dumbstruck
I think he drank enough to make me dysfunctional,
but somehow thrived on it.

He didn't drink as much as it seemed to many people.
He would fill a tall glass with cracked ice, pour one
shot of whiskey into it, and then sip it for several
hours.

[Stephen Graham]

Post by dumbstruck
Hitler - Parkinson's disease and drug addictions? - I question if
these put him totally out of his mind, based on his very shrewd
handling of power struggles among his henchmen, even in 1945 as
I gather from memoirs of some scheming henchmen.

If you're seriously interested in the question, the most recent book on
the subject is Was Hitler Ill? by Henrik Eberle and Hans-Joachim
Neumann. The conclusion they reach is that Htiler was no more unhealthy
than many middle-aged Germans of the day. The main issues apparently
were lack of exercise and stress.

[dumbstruck]

Post by Stephen Graham
If you're seriously interested in the question, the most recent book on
the subject is Was Hitler Ill? by Henrik Eberle and Hans-Joachim
Neumann. The conclusion they reach is that Htiler was no more unhealthy
than many middle-aged Germans of the day. The main issues apparently
were lack of exercise and stress.

Interesting! As for his psycho health, I found 2 1943ish OSS reports. They
seem rather amateurish, although based on solid accounts like from "Putzi"*

http://ebooks.library.cornell.edu/n/nur/pdf/nur01134.pdf
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hitler-adolf/oss-papers/text/profile-index.html

Like Patton's memoirs, these resonate as a major source for documentaries
we have all heard. Hitler as a closet effeminate gay, etc. They do make good
predictions for his future behavior tho.

* footnote -> "Putzi" was not only court jester to early Hitler, but a Harvard
grad who eventually came back to the FDR fold. I like his quote in Wiki
about Hitler's physical abilities: "What Hitler was able to do to a crowd in
21/2 hours will never be repeated in 10,000 years," Hanfstaengl said.
"Because of his miraculous throat construction, he was able to create a
rhapsody of hysteria.