Discussion:
Salvage of the S.S Normandie in 1942
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WJHopwood
2013-09-17 19:11:31 UTC
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In a September 16 article, the New York Times points out the similarities
between the current difficult salvage job on the 951 foot cruise ship Costa
Concordia now underway in Italy and the wartime fire, capsizing, and raising
of French ocean liner, the S.S. Normandie, which burned and capsized while
docked at Pier 88 in New York City in February 1942.

Whether the fire was the result of accident or sabotage was a mystery then
and remains so to some now, although the official account blamed the incident
on a welder's torch said to have ignited some life preservers.

The Normandie, launched in 1932, entered service on the Atlantic run in
1935 as what was then believed to be the largest and fastest passenger liner in
the world at 1029 feet in length (approx 3 football fields long). It is said that
the diameter of both tubes of the Holland tunnel would have fit into one of
Normandie's stacks. The ship had completed five seasons between
New York and Europe before finding itself in New York when WWII started
and remained there until taken over by the U.S. after Pearl Harbor. At the
time of the fire the ship had been re-named the U.S.S. Lafayette and was
being converted into a troop ship to carry 12,000 soldiers.

Water being pumped on the ship to douse the fire and also with the intent
of saving the 1000 foot pier, caused the ship to list at an angle similar to
that of the current Concordia and lodge on its side, resting on the rock and
mud at the bottom,

It was decided to try to raise and salvage the vessel rather than to return
it to service, but there was a shortage of divers due to the war and the
U.S. Navy established a training school for the 700 men who worked on
righting the ship. That job was not completed until July of 1943 at which
time it was towed to a drydock in Brooklyn where scrapping of it took
place throughout the rest of the war and was not completed until 1947.

The detailed story with a video can be seen at:
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/16/salvage-work-in-the-hudson-long-before-the-costa-concordia-took-on-water/#postComment

WJH
David Wilma
2013-09-22 18:16:22 UTC
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In looking at the fire I would suppose that the smokey blaze in those
confined spaces was far beyond civil firefighting technology of the time.
U.S. Navy crew got a lot of training in fighting fires, but probably not
the FDNY. I remember reading an account of an engineer pleading
with the on-scene commander (they didn't call them that at the time)
to let him, the engineer, show how to save the ship. His offer of
assistance was rejected.
Mario
2013-09-22 20:36:36 UTC
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Post by David Wilma
In looking at the fire I would suppose that the smokey blaze
in those confined spaces was far beyond civil firefighting
technology of the time. U.S. Navy crew got a lot of training
in fighting fires, but probably not the FDNY. I remember
reading an account of an engineer pleading with the on-scene
commander (they didn't call them that at the time) to let him,
the engineer, show how to save the ship. His offer of
assistance was rejected.
Fires in buildings are in confined spaces too.

The difference is that on land firefighters act from the outside
inward, on a ship they *are* inside and there is no outside...

(maybe I'm wrong, my knowledge in firefighting is probably 2 on
a scale of 10)
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Scott M. Kozel
2013-09-24 04:03:20 UTC
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Post by Mario
Fires in buildings are in confined spaces too.
The difference is that on land firefighters act from the outside
inward, on a ship they *are* inside and there is no outside...
The big difference with a ship is that you have to go
"down the chimney" to reach the fire, making it far
more dangerous and difficult to fight the fire than
the typical building fire.

The FDNY has five rescue companies that are trained
to handle all of the most complex fire and rescue
situations imaginable. They were fully operational
before the 1930s.

The USS Constellation (CV-64) was heavily damaged
by fire while under construction on 19 December
1960. The carrier was in the final stages of
construction at the Brooklyn Navy Yard in Brooklyn,
New York when the fire began. It took 17 hours for
firefighters to extinguish the fire. The
firefighters saved hundreds of lives without losing
any of their own, however fifty shipyard workers
perished. The FDNY rescue companies along with
many other FDNY companies were involved in this
event.

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