Did Hitler pray?

[SolomonW]

Throughout his life, Hitler went through a lot of stress. He had sunk into
poverty as a young man, was in moral danger in WW1 and blinded during a gas
attack. Later on, he faced in his political career great times of peril.
Internally he was always concerned quite correctly with assassinations,
coups, etc. Externally the war slowly turned against him feeding his
depression. Overtime many close to him both privately and publicly died,
and some betrayed him.

He was hypochondria and paranoic behaviour both would have feed to his
depression and fear of death.

Throughout any of it, did Hitler ever pray?

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[Scott M. Kozel]

Post by SolomonW
Throughout any of it, did Hitler ever pray?

That question is not meaningful unless we knew to who or to what specifically that he prayed to.

[SolomonW]

Post by Scott M. Kozel

Post by SolomonW
Throughout any of it, did Hitler ever pray?

That question is not meaningful unless we knew to who or to what specifically that he prayed to.

Disagree, I would be interested in knowing if he did pray to who as am I
sure would other people here too.

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[Scott M. Kozel]

Post by SolomonW

Post by Scott M. Kozel

Post by SolomonW
Throughout any of it, did Hitler ever pray?

That question is not meaningful unless we knew to who or to what specifically that he prayed to.

Disagree, I would be interested in knowing if he did pray to who as am I
sure would other people here too.

Just because someone prays doesn't mean that
he is praying to any of the commonly known
deities of the major world religions. He may
be praying to "Ascended Masters", or perhaps
to Satan, or perhaps to the Flying Spaghetti
Monster, or perhaps to a planet such as Mars or
Jupiter. Who knows.

Just because he was baptized as an infant in
a Roman Catholic Church doesn't mean that he
necessarily ever had any constructive knowledge
and/or practice of Christianity.

So there is a whole diverse range of things
that he could have "prayed" to.

[Bill Shatzer]

Scott M. Kozel wrote:

- snip -

Post by Scott M. Kozel
Just because he was baptized as an infant in
a Roman Catholic Church doesn't mean that he
necessarily ever had any constructive knowledge
and/or practice of Christianity.

Hitler's primary education was at a Catholic school operated by a
Benedictine monastery, and he was active in the church, including
singing in the church choir, and, reportedly, considered becoming a priest.

He must have developed something more than just a rudimentary knowledge
of Catholicism.

[Scott M. Kozel]

Post by Bill Shatzer

Post by Scott M. Kozel
Just because he was baptized as an infant in
a Roman Catholic Church doesn't mean that he
necessarily ever had any constructive knowledge
and/or practice of Christianity.

Hitler's primary education was at a Catholic school operated by a
Benedictine monastery, and he was active in the church, including
singing in the church choir, and, reportedly, considered becoming a priest.
He must have developed something more than just a rudimentary knowledge
of Catholicism.

He was expelled from that primary school at
11 years old for smoking on the school
grounds. Doesn't sound like there was much
understanding of true Christianity on either
side of that interaction.

[Bill Shatzer]

Post by Scott M. Kozel

Post by Bill Shatzer

Post by Scott M. Kozel
Just because he was baptized as an infant in
a Roman Catholic Church doesn't mean that he
necessarily ever had any constructive knowledge
and/or practice of Christianity.

Hitler's primary education was at a Catholic school operated by a
Benedictine monastery, and he was active in the church, including
singing in the church choir, and, reportedly, considered becoming a priest.
He must have developed something more than just a rudimentary knowledge
of Catholicism.

He was expelled from that primary school at
11 years old for smoking on the school
grounds.

The smoking incident is sporadically mentioned in various biographies
although they differ as to the punishment, if any, which followed.

But it seems unlikely that he would have been accepted at the technical
school his father forced him into had he failed to complete his primary
education.

Post by Scott M. Kozel
Doesn't sound like there was much
understanding of true Christianity on either
side of that interaction.

I doubt that the Catholic Church considers smoking per se as either a
mortal or venial sin. Certainly not anything disqualifying one from
"true Christianity".

[Scott M. Kozel]

Post by Bill Shatzer

Post by Scott M. Kozel
Doesn't sound like there was much
understanding of true Christianity on either
side of that interaction.

I doubt that the Catholic Church considers smoking per se as either a
mortal or venial sin. Certainly not anything disqualifying one from
"true Christianity".

The age of 11 is normally considered below the age of accountability of understanding that oneself is a sinner in need of a savior.

[Mario]

On Monday, January 26, 2015 at 7:12:15 PM UTC-5, Bill Shatzer

Post by Bill Shatzer

Post by Scott M. Kozel
Doesn't sound like there was much
understanding of true Christianity on either
side of that interaction.

I doubt that the Catholic Church considers smoking per se as
either a mortal or venial sin. Certainly not anything
disqualifying one from "true Christianity".

The age of 11 is normally considered below the age of
accountability of understanding that oneself is a sinner in
need of a savior.

No, my First Holy Communion (and Confession of sins) was taken
at 6 years old.

Confirmation was one year later, today is more years later.

Need of a Savior is from the birth, because of the Original Sin
(and in CC Christening usually is few days after birth)

[Scott M. Kozel]

Post by Mario

Post by Scott M. Kozel
The age of 11 is normally considered below the age of
accountability of understanding that oneself is a sinner in
need of a savior.

No, my First Holy Communion (and Confession of sins) was taken
at 6 years old.
Confirmation was one year later, today is more years later.
Need of a Savior is from the birth, because of the Original Sin
(and in CC Christening usually is few days after birth)

That is true, but most people don't actually
understand the need for salvation until about age
12 or so. One cannot die in their sins before the
age of accountability.

[Mario]

On Tuesday, January 27, 2015 at 6:25:59 PM UTC-5, Mario

Post by Mario

Post by Scott M. Kozel
The age of 11 is normally considered below the age of
accountability of understanding that oneself is a sinner
in need of a savior.

No, my First Holy Communion (and Confession of sins) was
taken at 6 years old.
Confirmation was one year later, today is more years later.
Need of a Savior is from the birth, because of the Original
Sin (and in CC Christening usually is few days after birth)

That is true, but most people don't actually
understand the need for salvation until about age
12 or so. One cannot die in their sins before the
age of accountability.

I think attitudes changed as time passed, from early
Christianity to today.

[Paul F Austin]

Post by Bill Shatzer

Post by Scott M. Kozel

Post by Bill Shatzer
He must have developed something more than just a rudimentary knowledge
of Catholicism.

He was expelled from that primary school at
11 years old for smoking on the school
grounds.

The smoking incident is sporadically mentioned in various biographies
although they differ as to the punishment, if any, which followed.
But it seems unlikely that he would have been accepted at the technical
school his father forced him into had he failed to complete his primary
education.

Post by Scott M. Kozel
Doesn't sound like there was much
understanding of true Christianity on either
side of that interaction.

I doubt that the Catholic Church considers smoking per se as either a
mortal or venial sin. Certainly not anything disqualifying one from
"true Christianity".

Having been brought up Catholic, I can tell you what the Catholic Church
considers sin is vastly different from what the nuns and brothers teach
the children.

"It's a mortal sin to lie to Sister". That's a real quote from my
childhood. There were lots of others. Order-lovers used the threat of
Hell to keep the little beasts in line.

Oh, wait. That hasn't changed.

Paul

[SolomonW]

Post by Scott M. Kozel
Just because someone prays doesn't mean that
he is praying to any of the commonly known
deities of the major world religions. He may
be praying to "Ascended Masters", or perhaps
to Satan, or perhaps to the Flying Spaghetti
Monster, or perhaps to a planet such as Mars or
Jupiter.

I accept your argument in full. What I would find interesting is to who he
did pray.

Post by Scott M. Kozel
Who knows.

If some knows I would like them to say.

<..>

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[Don Phillipson]

Post by Scott M. Kozel

Post by SolomonW
Throughout any of it, did Hitler ever pray?

That question is not meaningful unless we knew to who or to what
specifically that he prayed to.

(Like most Austrians) Hitler was baptized into the Roman Catholic
church. In later life he observed no religion, approved Nazi government
attempts to form a unified state Protestant Christian church, and
approved SS doctrines which were explicitly atheistic.

[Rich Rostrom]

SS doctrines which were explicitly atheistic...

"explicitly"?

IIRC, SS recruits were encouraged to drop their
religious identity as Catholic, Reformed, or
Lutheran, but _not_ to declare atheism instead.
That would have given offense to too many people.
The preferred formula was "believer in God".

There was also Himmler's attempt to create an
SS religion. It was a melange of Nordic paganism
with the Teutonic Knights (who were of course
Christian). Whether there was any explicit
reference to God or gods in Himmler's rituals
I don't know.

I do know that Hitler considered Himmler's
product ridiculous, and mocked it to other
Nazis.

[Alan Meyer]

On 01/25/2015 02:29 PM, Don Phillipson wrote:
...

Post by Don Phillipson
(Like most Austrians) Hitler was baptized into the Roman Catholic
church. In later life he observed no religion, approved Nazi government
attempts to form a unified state Protestant Christian church, and
approved SS doctrines which were explicitly atheistic.

He certainly had no compunctions about arresting, torturing, and
murdering any clerics, Protestant or Catholic, who raised objections to
the Nazi program.

If I remember correctly, Hitler did invoke "providence" and "destiny" at
times, for example after escaping from the July 20 assassination attempt
and also at the end when Roosevelt died and he took that as confirmation
of his wishful belief that the Western Allies would join him in
fighting, or at the very least leave him alone to fight, the Red horde
from the east.

However I don't think there's any reason to believe that this meant that
he believed in any God. Rather I think it more likely that it was a
manifestation of his megalomania. In his own mind he was such an
important person that history and destiny must, in some unspecifiable
way, be on his side.

Alan

[SolomonW]

Post by Alan Meyer
However I don't think there's any reason to believe that this meant that
he believed in any God.

I agree.

Post by Alan Meyer
Rather I think it more likely that it was a
manifestation of his megalomania.

His megalomania does not include something like "the sun will stand still,"
or the "earth will open up and devour his enemies." It all seems quite
natural, a V weapon, a new type of U-boat or a breakup of his enemies.
Probabily the closest is his *will*.

Not only that but his world view would accept that his mission could fail,
and his enemies could win.

One point I find interesting is that he never felt the comfort of group
praying although others around him did.


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[Aldrichtom]

Post by SolomonW
Throughout any of it, did Hitler ever pray?

Exactly to what and whom, I'll bet yes.