Discussion:
Two new books on MacArthur
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WJHopwood
2014-04-25 22:56:23 UTC
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Long lines.

The New York Times of April 25 contains a most interesting
review of two recently released books with conflicting viewpoints
regarding MacArthur's failures and achievements during WWII
and the occupation of Japan which followed, I believe most of us
who are WWII veterans will find that both books will re-awaken
old memories.

Titled the "THE MOST DANGEROUS MAN IN AMERICA--The
making of Douglas MacArthur," by Mark Perry (Apr. 1,2014),
and "SUPREME COMMANDER--MacArthur's Triumph in Japan,"
by Seymour Morris, Jr., (April 15,2014). these books tell of the
complicated and controversial evaluation of the "flamboyant"
MacArthur by his wartime military associates as well as by the
American public at large.

MacArthur was either despised or deified. Despised by much
of the military, brass with whom he was associated during the
war, for his narcissistic inability to share the limelight with
anyone, not even the combat commanders who helped him
what author Perry called" "the most successful air, land, and
sea campaign in the history of warfare." As for the public, it
was another matter, All but worshipped as a national hero
by most Americans, MacArthur was "bigger than life. One
who could play the part as if right from central casting.

Not so impressed, however, were the men of General Wainwright
who had been left behind on Bataan to surrender to the Japanese
and suffer the infamous Bataan Death March. By them, MacArthur
had been called, "Dugout Doug," for having visited their front lines
only once before leaving with his wife and small son in a Navy PT
boat for Australia. That part a bum rap inasmuch as he had been
ordered by FDR to do so. Indeed, Washington had portrayed his
retreat "not as an act of flight but a daring escape through Japanese
lines,"

After Pearl Harbor, Washington needed a "hero" of dimension in the
Pacific to boost public morale. For that, MacArthur was right out of
central casting. His contagious self-esteem, both during WWII and the
"Korean Emergency" thereafter, did the job--until fired by President
Truman who had had enough of MacArthur's ego which, in Truman's
view and despite the anticipated political uproar which followed, had,
to Truman, reached the point of insubordination. As military historian,
Mark Perry, writes in "THE MOST DANGEROUS MAN IN AMERICA,"
MacArthur was "...a commander whose occassional military genius
vied with an overwhelming ego that alienated his superiors in
Washington and led to his eventual downfall.

After WWII ended, MacArthur became a different man when selected
as head of the Allied forces for the occupation of Japan. As author
Seymour Morris, Jr. writes in "SUPREME COMMANDER," MacArthur
"set a standard for moral conduct toward an enemy who in war has
shown hardly any honor at all..(and introduced)..a flood of liberal
reforms aimed at transforming a feudal, militaristic country with no
tradition of individual liberties into a bastion of democracy.

For those interested the review of the books can be seen in full at:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/27/books/review/supreme-commander-and-the-most-dangerous-man-in-america.html?emc=edit_tnt_20140425&nlid=65401455&tntemail0=y

WJH
m***@netMAPSONscape.net
2014-04-26 03:09:12 UTC
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Post by WJHopwood
After WWII ended, MacArthur became a different man when selected
as head of the Allied forces for the occupation of Japan. As author
Seymour Morris, Jr. writes in "SUPREME COMMANDER," MacArthur
"set a standard for moral conduct toward an enemy who in war has
shown hardly any honor at all..(and introduced)..a flood of liberal
reforms aimed at transforming a feudal, militaristic country with no
tradition of individual liberties into a bastion of democracy.
I wouldn't say he was a different man; he was suddenly a man in his element.
The Japanese, still being a very vertical society were essentially going to
follow his every command; what could be more gratifying for a man of his
ego? That he was also very good and even-handed ensured that at least
one part of his legacy remains almost untainted (there are always at
least some detractors.)

Mike
WJHopwood
2014-04-26 04:29:37 UTC
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Post by WJHopwood
After WWII ended, MacArthur became a different man when selected
as head of the Allied forces for the occupation of Japan....
I wouldn't say he was a different man...The Japanese, still being a very
vertical society were essentially going to follow his every command....
That he was also very good and even-handed ensured that at least one
part of his legacy remains almost untainted....
I agree. My words "MacArthr became a different man" were poorly chosen.
What I was trying to convey was the book author's thoughts about MacArthur's
speech at the surrender ceremony, paraphrased by the reviewer as "...instead
of announcing draconian measures for the vanquished enemy MacArthur
rhapsodized about creating a 'better world' for Japan." along with the author's
view that "...while MacArthur's work in Japan was arguably the greatest
achievment of his career, it has been overshadowed by the wartime
controversies that preceded and followed it."

WJH
GFH
2014-04-27 17:59:55 UTC
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Post by WJHopwood
After WWII ended, MacArthur became a different man when selected
as head of the Allied forces for the occupation of Japan. As author
Seymour Morris, Jr. writes in "SUPREME COMMANDER," MacArthur
"set a standard for moral conduct toward an enemy who in war has
shown hardly any honor at all..(and introduced)..a flood of liberal
reforms aimed at transforming a feudal, militaristic country with no
tradition of individual liberties into a bastion of democracy.
Did he cover the Tomoyuki Yamashita trial? Hardly a "standard
for moral conduct towards an enemy".

GFH
Michael Emrys
2014-04-27 23:48:55 UTC
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Did he cover the Tomoyuki Yamashita trial? Hardly a "standard for
moral conduct towards an enemy".
I've always wondered about that. Something about his arrest, trial, and
execution does not compute. At the risk of sounding sensationalistic,
I've wondered if there wasn't some hidden motive in all that. One thing
that came to mind is that it was some kind of revenge for the
embarrassing defeat he handed the British in Malaya and Singapore. But
why would an essentially American military government be interested in
avenging the British? Definitely an odd-looking incident in a war where
odd-looking incidents were not exactly rare.

Michael
WJHopwood
2014-04-28 04:11:35 UTC
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Post by Michael Emrys
Did he cover the Tomoyuki Yamashita trial? Hardly a "standard for
moral conduct towards an enemy".
I've always wondered about that. Something about his arrest, trial, and
execution does not compute....I've wondered if there wasn't some hidden
motive in all that..... Definitely an odd-looking incident in a war where
odd-looking incidents were not exactly rare.
The major Tokyo war crimes trials had not yet been organized, when
Yamashita was tried. Anyway the Tokyo trials were reserved only for the
28 Class A war criminals considered responsible for the major decisions
of the Japanese government including starting and maintaining the war.

As for the lower echelon B and C criminals, MacArthur had assigned the
day by day administration of their fate to the U.S. Eighth Army commanded
by General Robert Eichelberger, Apparently MacArthur had no further
involvement in the selection of those to be tried nor in the conduct of the B
and C trials.

Yamashita (a.k.a. the "Tiger of Malaya," was among the Class B war criminals,
i.e., the field commanders and others at lower levels of responsibility
who oversaw notorious atrocities in the course of their command functions.
As the supreme commander of Japanese forces in the Philippines he was
responsible for numerous atrocities inflicted on the Philippine people.
Yamashita was the first of hundreds of other lower echelon commanders tried.
His trial began on October 29, 1945. He was convicted by a U.S. Military
Commission consisting of 5 U.S.Officers, and, was sentenced to deatj
(ironically) on the 4th anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor, December 7,
1945, General Homma, who commanded the Japanese troops responsible
for the Bataan Death March was also among those tried and convicted by a
U.S. Military Court as were 193 other Japanese in the area of the defunct
"Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere," In addition, the Philippine
government convicted 133 others.

Other trials were conducted by the U.S. military in the Marianas and other Pacific
island battle areas resulting in 113 additional convictions, and allies of the U.S.
also held numerous war crimes trials outside of Japan. China convicted over 500
war criminals, France 198, Netherlands 969, Great Britain 811, and Australia
644. [Source: "The Other Nuremberg--The Untold Story of the Tokyo War Crimes
Trials," by Arnold Brackman (United Press Correspondent at the Tokyo Trials].

WJH
m***@netMAPSONscape.net
2014-04-28 04:37:06 UTC
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Post by WJHopwood
As the supreme commander of Japanese forces in the Philippines he was
responsible for numerous atrocities inflicted on the Philippine people.
...
Post by WJHopwood
1945, General Homma, who commanded the Japanese troops responsible
for the Bataan Death March was also among those tried and convicted by a
Already addressed this in response to the same post, but in both cases, the
men ACTUALLY responsible for these actions usually escaped prosecution. Most
notable among them would be Masanobu Tsuji, who ordered executions of PoWs
and civilians in direct defiance of orders from (eg) Homma and Yamamshita,
who actually ordered prisoners to be treated well.

Tsuji's "patriotic" excesses weren't limited to butchering the helpless; he
was partly responsible for instigating actions along the Soviet border that
eventually led to Zhukov giving the Japanese a practical lab in the use of
armor, and cast the Japanese many more lives than they would otherwise have
lost at Guadalcanal (that being one of the last times Japan would evacuate
troops.) Cowardly to the end, the went into hiding after the war, fearing he'd
be tried as a war criminal, returning to Japan only when it was safe. Tsuji
was perhaps the warst, but certainly not only, Japanese officer who acted
directly against orders to behave in the worst possible fashion (see the 2-
26-36 Incident, the attempted coup after the surrender, etc.)

In WWII being "in command" was not necessarily the same thing as being responsible
in the Japanese military.

Mike
m***@netMAPSONscape.net
2014-04-28 04:25:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Emrys
Did he cover the Tomoyuki Yamashita trial? Hardly a "standard for
moral conduct towards an enemy".
I've always wondered about that. Something about his arrest, trial, and
execution does not compute. At the risk of sounding sensationalistic,
I've wondered if there wasn't some hidden motive in all that. One thing
that came to mind is that it was some kind of revenge for the
embarrassing defeat he handed the British in Malaya and Singapore. But
why would an essentially American military government be interested in
avenging the British? Definitely an odd-looking incident in a war where
odd-looking incidents were not exactly rare.
There's little doubt that (at least in my mind) that this was at least in
part due to MacArthur's desire to punish someone for the Philippines. Evidence
indicating that the troops involved in the various massacres were acting
against his orders, or out of control entirely, was not admitted as evidence.

To illustrate the overall unfairness of things, Masanobu Tsuji, who ordered
mistreatment (or outright execution) of prisoners and brutalities towards
civilians (all of which would make Japanese occupation much more difficult),
went into hiding after the war, returning to Japan only when sure he wouldn't
be charged with war crimes (it was he who ordered some of the extremely
brutal treatment of PoWs in the Bataan Death March, against orders). He
was eventually elected to the new Diet.

Not fair at all...

Mike
m***@netMAPSONscape.net
2014-04-28 04:13:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by GFH
Post by WJHopwood
After WWII ended, MacArthur became a different man when selected
as head of the Allied forces for the occupation of Japan. As author
Seymour Morris, Jr. writes in "SUPREME COMMANDER," MacArthur
"set a standard for moral conduct toward an enemy who in war has
shown hardly any honor at all..(and introduced)..a flood of liberal
reforms aimed at transforming a feudal, militaristic country with no
tradition of individual liberties into a bastion of democracy.
Did he cover the Tomoyuki Yamashita trial? Hardly a "standard
for moral conduct towards an enemy".
He was vindictive, no doubt. However, there are perfect humans, Mr Hardy, and
his actions in the occupation have helped Japan to become an econimic power-
house, a staunch ally of the US, and an extremely pacifist nation. Absolutely
none of that can be dismissed (nor diminished) with such a throw-away comment.

Mike
GFH
2014-04-28 14:40:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@netMAPSONscape.net
Post by GFH
Post by WJHopwood
After WWII ended, MacArthur became a different man when selected
as head of the Allied forces for the occupation of Japan. As author
Seymour Morris, Jr. writes in "SUPREME COMMANDER," MacArthur
"set a standard for moral conduct toward an enemy who in war has
shown hardly any honor at all..(and introduced)..a flood of liberal
reforms aimed at transforming a feudal, militaristic country with no
tradition of individual liberties into a bastion of democracy.
Did he cover the Tomoyuki Yamashita trial? Hardly a "standard
for moral conduct towards an enemy".
He was vindictive, no doubt. However, there are perfect humans, Mr Hardy, and
his actions in the occupation have helped Japan to become an econimic power-
house, a staunch ally of the US, and an extremely pacifist nation. Absolutely
none of that can be dismissed (nor diminished) with such a throw-away comment.
I agree 100%. MacArthur's handling of the occupation of Japan was a masterpiece. Extremely well done.

If one compares the first post-war year of MacArthur and Ike, the difference becomes clear.

GFH
m***@netMAPSONscape.net
2014-04-29 04:09:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by GFH
Post by m***@netMAPSONscape.net
He was vindictive, no doubt. However, there are perfect humans, Mr Hardy, and
his actions in the occupation have helped Japan to become an econimic power-
house, a staunch ally of the US, and an extremely pacifist nation. Absolutely
none of that can be dismissed (nor diminished) with such a throw-away comment.
I agree 100%. MacArthur's handling of the occupation of Japan was a masterpiece. Extremely well done.
If one compares the first post-war year of MacArthur and Ike, the difference becomes clear.
True; MacArthur was essentially an absolute (though quite benevolent) ruler of
an entire nation. Ike had to balance the needs/wants/idiosyncracies of 2 other
sometime uncooperative allies and keep a wary on a third "ally", while
trying to rebuild a nation ripped apart by multiple invading armies.

Mike

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